Symphodus bailloni

Andrew Cleave Baillon's Wrasse Symphodus bailloni. One of three caught in Poole Bay on August 27th. All were returned, as well as several other Wrasse species, including Corkwing, Goldsinney and Ballan.

Andy Horton One of those most convincing pictures of a fish that I thought was a load of baloney. I would have liked to see in captivity of a few months to be convinced though. I would have to go through my slide selection to check out my pictures of Corkwing to double-check the markings which change when they out of the water. This looks quite a big one, sub-adult?

Andrew Cleave This was the smallest of three. They all showed the rose-tinged fins, dark spot on the dorsal fin and dark bars on the flanks. This was photographed in water.

Andy Horton Its difficult. I would like to check out the markings in captive specimens. The dorsal fin spot is very distinctive though and I think I would have noticed this before.

Andy Horton I might have to change my mind and include this as an extra British wrasse. Red fringes to the fins is frequent in C. melops in Autumn.

Andrew Cleave Plenty of records on NBN from Portland to the IOW.

Andy Horton I am far from sure the IDs are correct. The dorsal fin spot does look very distinctive though. Not so in other photographs.

Andy Horton With your permission I would like to use your picture on the Torpedo News Bulletin to ask if anybody else has seen this fish please? And a comparative one of a Corkwing if you have one? http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Torpedo2.htm

Andy Horton I would like to have a look at the other pics as well please?

Andy Horton Note the black blotch behind the pectoral fin as well.

Sheilah Openshaw I often see these between St. alban's Head & Portland, the photograph isn't as distinctive as I am used to because the bars on the body are more prominent on the ones I usually see.

Andrew Cleave OK Andy. This is a low-res image, but feel free to use it for the Torpedo Bulletin. It will be interesting to see how many responses there are.

Andy Horton I'll put in the September Torpedo Bulletin as I want to write up the script properly and I'll not do this before the end of August. More later. I feel the basis of an article coming on. Proper credits to everyone. I expect there are experts on Labridae out there!?

Andy Horton Investigations into the species of Labridae found in British seas (from photographic and observations evidence).

Andy Horton I'll send you the script Andrew. It will take longer than a quite write-up.

Andy Horton From memory there have been articles published in the MBA, on what was then Crenilabrus melops, by Geoff Potts? I read this thirty or so years ago. Wheeler puts the dorsal fin spot as definitive for S. bailloni. I have never actually seen this before for real or in photographs until now.

Andrew Cleave Will do a bit more research on this and get back to you, and may also be out in Poole Bay again in the next week or two so will try to have another look for this intriguing fish.

Douglas Herdson Geoff Potts' work was on Crenilabrus melops which builds a nest of weed in rock crevices. Crenilabrus bailloni makes a dome like nest in soft sediment.

Douglas Herdson Sorry, Andrew, was it Poole Bay or Poole Harbour? I thought they were commoner in the harbour.

Sheilah Openshaw more common in the Bay.

Andrew Cleave Yes - out in the bay over a mark known to some of the skippers where there is always a good selection of wrasse and other species - we also found Tub Gurnard, Red Gurnard, Pout, Poor Cod, Tompot Blenny, Rock Goby and Plaice in the same location.

Simon Parker Is it just me or has this thing got 0387 printed on the side of it?

Andy Horton Well spotted! Not baloney. http://www.fishbase.se/summary/Crenilabrus-bailloni.html

Andy Horton Andrew Cleave: did you catch any more specimens? Write up in Torpedo put back to the October issue.

Andy Horton Has anybody got any good pics of S.melops for comparison that I can use in Torpedo please?

Andrew Cleave Three on that occasion, and singles on two more trips, one of which was from Kimmeridge.

Andy Horton MARINE LIFE NEWS BULLETIN TORPEDO (October 2013) Issue 201 ISSN 1464-8156 Oceans: NE Atlantic, British Isles For technical reasons, TORPEDO is no longer being sent out by EMail. It is simply easier to view the bulletins on the web pages. Please find a copy of the bulletin at: http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Torpedo2013October.htm The 201st issue of Torpedo includes News Reports: Bluefin Tuna Stalked Barnacles Blackfish, Centrolophus niger Species feature Baillon's Wrasse It has always been a problem for me to distinguish these two species or even to decide that they are two different species. The upper photograph is the best example I have encountered that show the differences, most notably the black spot on the second part of the dorsal fin which is the reported definitive identifying picture of the Baillon's Wrasse, Symphodus bailloni, and the black spot preceding the caudal (tail) fin which is is seen on all free swimming examples of Corkwing Wrasse, Symphodus crenilabrus. Coastal Feature: Storm at Shoreham-by-Sea MARINE LIFE NEWS BULLETIN TORPEDO INDEX http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Torpedo2.htm