Ciocalypta penicillus

George Brown Hi folks, is this Ciocalypta penicillus? Eilean Dubha, Kyle of Lochalsh. Depth 18 metres.

George Brown Thanks again Dawn. Looking forward to Muck? Weather forecast has improved this last few hours - at least for Saturday. Take waterproofs AND shorts!

Andy Horton Well named

George Brown I've been known to wear my pants on my head. But only at Hogmanay!

Sarah Bowen Don't, George! Just reminds me of some of the bad Hogmanay experiences I had when living in Edinburgh...

David Kipling That's not fair, I wasn't always that badly behaved!

George Brown You're not the Sarah and David that....Hogmanay 2001..Edinburgh Castle...flagpole...front page Daily Record...what a small world!!!

Sarah Bowen We'll just get our own back when we venture Eastwards, don't you worry!

Craig Muirhead redirected from NE Tunicata (thanks George Brown :)) Loch Leven, Scotland 04/08/13

David Kipling Ah but which one, there's that tapering one with the ridge line and then the other less tapering one ...

David Kipling It's one we sometimes argue about, as the tapering one isn't always as tapering in all the chimneys as you'd like...

Holly Latham Are you arguing between Polymastia penicillus and Ciocaylpta penicillus...? I would go with P. penicillus - lacking the central core, wrong texture and quite delicate. But then there could be something else... It is a strange shape (the base is not rounded) but that could presumably be influenced by its surroundings. Are there any others you are thinking of?

Richard Yorke What about Polymastia agglutinans? It was suggested I should call this Polymastia cf. agglutinans which was taken at around 20m on Lullworth Banks, Dorset July 2012

David Kipling We weren't arguing, I was just making sure in my mind why it wasn't the next-nearest species (always a good question to ask explicitly). Although Holly you're right that it doesn't feel the same as the ones we gets in Pembs, although local conditions etc etc.

Holly Latham Arguing is indeed a harsh way of putting it... I was not insinuating hand bags at dawn, more a thorough discussion of the relevant characteristic features of the species! ;)

David Kipling lol! Me and Dawn and handbags, now there's an image. No, what I meant was that I wasn't disagreeing with Dawn, just wanted to hear why it wasn't the other one that looks the same (a bit like when your maths teacher made you "show the working" for extra points).

Claire Goodwin Hate to throw a spanner in the works (to add to Dawn's brick) but there are quite a few as yet un-named species of Polymastia within diving depths which Christine Morrow is currently working on. This does look a bit different to P.penicillus (the base cushion is un-silted which is odd) so I wouldn't be 100% sure it is that. You can definitely tell it apart from Ciocalypta penicillus as (as said above) as it lacks the central column of spicules up the papillae and the papillae aren't tapered to a point.

David Kipling Do we need to send Craig back to get a sample Claire?

Claire Goodwin Of course :).

Holly Latham Thanks for confirming my fears Claire... any good resources for current info on alternate Polymastia species?

Claire Goodwin Not until Christine gets her paper finished....

Nick Owen Oooh. Paper on Polymastias, Lovely! Yes please. Any chance of a notification when it comes out please? Re Polymastia agglutinans: Didn't I read somewhere that "agglutinans" refers to its habit of binding particles to its basal cushion so that it can't be "wafted" clean? Just like Richard's pic... Note also that Richard's has closed papillae - seem to recall this is also a charachter of Pol agg.

Tony Gilbert Tending towards Polymastia penicillus for this sponge. Ruecallan Arch, 28m, North Wall Rathlin.

Tony Gilbert Thanks Dawn. Just read up on Ciocalypta penicillus, this image has many characteristics of that, thick walls, slightly conical, colouration. But the basal cushion - in this case - am racking my brains, but think it was on the inside arch walls - it wasn't on sand or gravel - but then again the arch is a microcosm anyway.

Claire Goodwin If it was Ciocalypta penicillus you should be able to see spicule columns up the middle of the papillae and the papillae would be very neat and conical looking - also tends to be on sand and gravel not rock. We don't tend to get this much in NI either as it is more southern - although we do have a record off the Skerries. This is a Polymastia or Sphaerotylus but there are several species of undescribed Polymastia that Christine Morrow is working on and it could be one of these (sorry Dawn Watson!).

George Brown Hi. A few months ago I posted a photo of Ciocalypta here.http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3864781990742&set=o.341487989207852&type=3&theater

Tony Gilbert That's true Dawn, good to have a forum like this then :-) I can email a higher-res version if anyone want to take a closer look, and think its on the vertcial inside wall of the arch. So should be easily found again.

Paula Lightfoot Doris sticta I think - I saw it on the wreck of the Volnay in Cornwall this weekend, never seen this one before :)

David Kipling Yup spot on! Reminds me of those tropical Halgerdas.

Kirstie Harris I've seen these on the Drawna Rock shore dive at Porthkerris, but not found them in Plymouth.

George Brown And recently found on the west coast of Scotland.

Paula Lightfoot George and Kirstie are your records in the 2012 Seasearch dataset? If so they will be on the NBN Gateway very soon. Currently the only record from that part of Cornwall is Chris Wood's record from the Volnay in 2005 so it will be good to get the Drawna Rock record(s) added. That's great news about a record from west Scotland, that's loads further north than all the current records!

Kirstie Harris No, mine aren't. I'll check my logbooks tonight to see when exactly I saw them (it was before last year), but I do know I find them every time I dive there. Who should I tell?

Paula Lightfoot Hi Kirstie, did you take photos? You could enter individual records into iRecord (www.brc.ac.uk/iRecord) or the MBA's Marine Sightings Network.

Kirstie Harris I'm almost certain I've got photos. I'll do the necessary tonight!

George Brown I'll check it out Paula.

David Kipling Do we have any idea what this species eats yet? (other than looking like a bit of scruffy yellow sponge). I've never seen it actually on a sponge ...

Kirstie Harris Have entered the info and photo into iRecord.

Bernard Picton It was quite common around Sark in 2010 when we were doing our Sponge UK project. Some were certainly eating Ciocalypta penicillus, but they were in rocky habitats as well so I wondered if they ate other sponges as well.