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Polycarpa scuba

Monniot C., 1971


George Brown Need some help please. Is this Polycarpa scuba? Many thanks. Loch Inchard, west coast of Scotland. Depth 18 metres.

David Kipling Light coloured flared siphons ... this appears identical to some that Anne Bay-Nouailhat ID'd for me as P. scuba in Skomer.

Anne Bay-Nouailhat Well, I would say P. scuba because of the siphon form, size and test texture. It looks like those we have here in Rade de Brest.

George Brown I read the earlier posts which prompted this submission. Many thanks to you all.

David Kipling You're very welcome George ;)

David Kipling We do need that "field guide to UK ascidians", don't we?

David Kipling ... and this would make a nice picture for the Polycarpa scuba page ...

George Brown And you would make a good author! We need more photographs of known species of which there are many out there. The Dendrodoa you're trying to nail down, display many subtle differences which might make some individuals something else. The same can be said of the Polycarpas and others. Claire Goodwin has talked of "ground truthing" some tunicates. A great idea! When do we start? :-)

Nick Owen "Yes please" to an ascidians guide. And yes, ground truthing needed. To ground truth need to collect and dissect. Any one know of a course coming up that includes the "lab side" please?

Joanne Porter yes please I'd like to go on that course too and yes please to the guide book

Sarah Bowen Well, there may be a plan emerging to respond to these requests, Nick and Joanne! More shortly, I hope.

Becky Hitchin Ascidians guide? Oh yes.

Message posted on NE Atlantic Tunicata on 09 Jun 2012
Christine Picton Hi, this looks similar to Polycarpa scuba Check out the Encyclopedia of Marine Life web page. Christine Marinehttp://www.habitas.org.uk/marinelife/species.asp?item=ZD1880

David Kipling What would be the other possibilities, and how would we distinguish between them Christine?

Wilfried Bay-Nouailhat Hi Christine, thank you for this interesting proposition. The description from Marine Life Encyclopedia seems to correspond but we did not find it because it is not mentionned in the publications we have.

Message posted on NE Atlantic Tunicata on 28 Feb 2012
George Brown Need some help please. Is this Polycarpa scuba? Many thanks. Loch Inchard, west coast of Scotland. Depth 18 metres.

David Kipling Light coloured flared siphons ... this appears identical to some that Anne Bay-Nouailhat ID'd for me as P. scuba in Skomer.

Anne Bay-Nouailhat Well, I would say P. scuba because of the siphon form, size and test texture. It looks like those we have here in Rade de Brest.

George Brown I read the earlier posts which prompted this submission. Many thanks to you all.

David Kipling You're very welcome George ;)

David Kipling We do need that "field guide to UK ascidians", don't we?

David Kipling ... and this would make a nice picture for the Polycarpa scuba page ...

George Brown And you would make a good author! We need more photographs of known species of which there are many out there. The Dendrodoa you're trying to nail down, display many subtle differences which might make some individuals something else. The same can be said of the Polycarpas and others. Claire Goodwin has talked of "ground truthing" some tunicates. A great idea! When do we start? :-)

Nick Owen "Yes please" to an ascidians guide. And yes, ground truthing needed. To ground truth need to collect and dissect. Any one know of a course coming up that includes the "lab side" please?

Joanne Porter yes please I'd like to go on that course too and yes please to the guide book

Sarah Bowen Well, there may be a plan emerging to respond to these requests, Nick and Joanne! More shortly, I hope.

Becky Hitchin Ascidians guide? Oh yes.

Message posted on NE Atlantic Tunicata on 09 Jun 2012
Paula Lightfoot Aplysilla sulfurea maybe...?

Liz Morris Id agree with A.sulfurea, I think I've seen it up to 10cm cushions, and looking at the size of your Dendrodoa this prob wasnt more than that? but I'm no expert!

Tony Gilbert Yes, does certainly look like it, I've not seen this, assume its locally abundant in North Sea? Are those Polycarpa scuba nearby (Dendrodoa grossularia are more rounded)?

Message posted on Seasearch Identifications on 29 Jul 2012
Richard Yorke More squirts from the Llyn

Richard Yorke Liz Morris has asked me to post this. We assume this is Distomus variolosus and the syphon arrowed appears to have 6 lobes, but it would be nice to have the identification confirmed. I'm not sure about the larger one either.

Liz Morris I think that it seems to have stripey siphons too when closed, and very densley aggregated (amlost looking like its shareing a tunic in places). Would be nice to just have a confirmation if anyone thinks its obvious, as we've been seeing this species off the North Llyn with Seasearch for years, and would be nice to have some confidence that we're correctly iding it!!!

Liz Morris PS - can anyone confirm that dendrodoa and Stolonica have 4 oral lobes, and Distomas 6? I've been looking in Berril and habitas and I'm confused (again!).

David Kipling All the pictures I've seen of Stolonica appear to show some individuals with square siphons. Ditto Dendrodoa (and also try here which suggests the same). http://species-identification.org/species.php?species_group=tunicata&menuentry=plaatjessleutel&pagenum=11

David Kipling Habitas certainly says 6-lobed is distinctive for Distomus, and Wilfried's site shows the same 6-fold symmetry (esp if you look at the stripes). http://www.mer-littoral.org/32/photo-distomus-variolosus-wb01.php

David Kipling On the downside, I normally think of Distomas as being bright red and shiny, as opposed to these rather pallid examples.

David Kipling Liz Morris - I can see the problem with Berrill etc. The picture in Berrill of Distomus (p204) shows 4-fold siphons, as does the picture in Millar Linnean synopsis, although neither comment in the text on this feature. However, by the time you get to Hayward and Ryland (1995) [Fig 13.10] you now see 6-fold siphons (with the expected 4-fold for Dendrodoa and Stolonica). I wonder if it's just an error in the earlier works that has been corrected - Bernard would be able to comment.

Liz Morris wow.... very interesting - you are obviously disturbed by this too! I thought they were a bit pale too, but otherwise very similar. i guess we'll be getting out to collect some of these too then!! Hopefully Bernard may have some thoughts if he's not too busy :)

Anne Bay-Nouailhat Distomus variolosus for sure, pale specimens are not so rare

Wilfried Bay-Nouailhat And Polycarpa scuba

Liz Morris Thank you both.. great straightforward answers!!

Bernard Picton Thanks, Anne, I agree. I get the impression that the paler ones are in places where the water is less clear.

Message posted on NE Atlantic Tunicata on 26 Sep 2012
Ruth Sharratt Hi Liz, thanks for organising such a good weekend's diving. Thanks for all your hard work, it is much appreciated. I've attached a couple of pics - one was of a friendly? fish (we think butterfish) in pentapora. The other is of the nudibranch goniodoris nodosa. It's not a brilliant pic but (it's the same species as the one I photographed for you Kathryn) however the book says it feeds on Dendrodoa grossularia. This was photographed on the 2nd dive on Sunday, so may affect what we thought the sea squirt was which was covering the boulders and gullies. Paul B, what do you think. I guess it's possible that D. grossularia was there as well.

David Kipling Some of those siphons look quite square in cross section, which is a feature of Polycarpa scuba (which looks quite similar),.

Ruth Sharratt Thanks David, Paul Brazier had said they were Polycarpa scuba. Picton did say that it feeds on ascidians, so it includes polycarpa as well. I'm never sure how fussy these creatures are.

David Kipling I imagine that once you climb inside an ascidian the soft bits probably are all the same to eat!

Paul Brazier Hi Ruth. I notice from habitats.org that there is a picture of the eggs, which are a string, rather than a ribbon, so that may account for the extensive strings of eggs that you saw on the same dive. I also spotted a G nodosa in the adjacent bay.

Liz Morris Hi guys - good tips. I saw loads of Goniodoris nodosa on that second dive Ruth, so think you're right. I'd put these down as Dendrodoa grossularia actually. As I understand from previous squirt courses, any species with 4 oral lobes can appear 'square', including both Dendrodoa and Distomas. These guys look quite stout, more of Dendrodoa than Polycarpa. And I think Distomas would generally be tighter packed and with more stripey siphons. So very tricky. Interesting that David and Paul think Polycarpa - I'll have to look more closely and dig one out nex time. Save your pics and we'll try to go through them on the upcoming ID course and see what the others reckon.

Message posted on Seasearch North Wales on 16 Apr 2012
David Kipling Is this a Pyura or Polycarpa species? S Pembrokeshire, Wales.

Anne Bay-Nouailhat Well, I'd say that the white siphon forms and those with thin widened margin are Polycarpa scuba. That one looks more like a Pyura with its siphons wide apart.

David Kipling Thanks Anne, appreciate that!

David Kipling An album for George Brown w.r.t. Polycarpa scuba.

George Brown All good stuff. Many thanks David and Anne.

Message posted on NE Atlantic Tunicata on 20 May 2012
Becky Hitchin Any ideas? this was from 18m down on the Goodwin Sands, there were quite a few of them, all orange-apricot with that diffuse white-ish ring around them

David Kipling Tunicate (he says rather unhelpfully). Not a vast amount to go on (apart from siphon position) in this specimen; you'd perhaps get more information cutting it open and having a look at its guts with a copy of Berrill to hand perhaps! It looks like it has a gelatinous test, which presumably rules out something like Polycarpa scuba.

Dany Ros A P.I.P tit?

Becky Hitchin Thanks, David Fenwick, I know that pic isn't particularly helpful but the silly things dried up and look even less identifiable now! I might try chopping it up though!

David Fenwick Snr I think David Kipling is the one to thank LOL. Damn Facebook !

Becky Hitchin good point, thanks David Kipling! LOL :)

Taxonomy
Animalia (Kingdom)
  Chordata (Phylum)
    Tunicata (Subphylum)
      Ascidiacea (Class)
        Stolidobranchia (Order)
          Styelidae (Family)
            Polycarpa (Genus)
              Polycarpa scuba (Species)
Associated Species