Actinia fragacea

Andy Horton Biological Recording. Training is not everything, the personality of the recorder and the information available in the guides I have found to be crucial. I have spoken at a national conference suggesting the role that volunteers have to play; not merely anecdotes. A professional survey takes a record in a fragment in time. They can mislead if not done properly or at the wrong time. Changes need to be monitored.

Nicolas Jouault I flagged this up this at a meeting on the subject in Jersey, I got no where. It also helps in engaging the public and creating a general awareness. Instead the "experts" here kept going on about the commercial value in selling records to developers who needed EIA's done, and of course they wanted the ownership and use of the data. A murky business best kept open to one and all as it is the only way to go in my view as an amateur of course.

Andy Horton Yep, I got nowhere when I said if the biological records are not made easy access volunteers would be reluctant to send them in. I do not send in my records. I just keep a diary (anecdotal). Biological Records Centre are too precious. They do not have enough records for an overview.

Andy Horton Another thing I said at the Biological Recording Conference is that Biological Recording should be kept separate from Land Management.

Rob Spray If you don't share records they are not records... they are just used paper. We share our records (Seasearch) - it is a basic tenant of the project - primarily via the NBN and also share them with the LRC in case more use can be made of them locally. Seasearch was important during the MCZ processes and in some instances the only biological records of any significance which were accessible. I'm sure Paula Lightfoot - can give lots more reason why records should be accessible and shared.

Nicolas Jouault Selective sharing is not open from my personal experience. Public records are the only ones that are openly scrutinised and in my view valid. For instance if one submits a record and is unable to see it published how does one know it has been collated and recorded correctly.

John Foster I agree with Rob. I have been involved in an organization that maintains water quality records for the past 25 years for St Andrew Bay, Florida. We publish them every 3-5 years, more often since the availability of easy computer analysis. They have been used as management tools by local government because they no longer have the funds to do the job themselves. Trained, dedicated volunteers are the future of natural history and water monitoring data collection, at least in this country, because funding has dried up at all levels. I could whine about funding priorities, but it seems more useful for volunteer scientists and environmental organizations to just do it..... with high levels of quality control. Some of our data has been published in journals, that's the standard I hope to maintain. I don't see the public funding outlook improving any time soon.

Bernard Picton More on this story today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20445296

Bernard Picton The NBN gateway is a perfectly good concept for biological records in 21st century in my opinion. There are issues with misidentifications, which is why I'm keen to see people using photography as much as possible. Our biological records centre CeDAR, is very much engaged with amateur recorders, but based at the Museum where identification expertise is available.

Andy Horton I will have to look into NBN Gateway. I do mostly terrestrial nowadays.

Jon Chamberlain Although the concept of citizen science has been around for ages it is only recently that technology has offered huge leaps forward for this methodology. For example, collecting and verifying data on smart phones in the field will clearly become the norm. However, the real benefit to science will become apparent as the methodology matures, the technology develops standards and the data starts to show results that would be impossible to achieve using traditional methods. Exciting times for biology and technology (or bioinformatics as it is now termed)!

Paula Lightfoot This report was launched at the NBN Conference today - all conference proceedings will be published on the NBN website shortly. There is also a report by the MBA specifically about citizen science and marine data but the link isn't working for me at the moment, I will post it in this group as soon as I can. I agree with Bernard Picton about using photos as much as possible. iRecord is a good examlple of this (www.brc.ac.uk/iRecord). iRecord also inc You can also comment on incorrect records on the NBN Gateway, which sends a message to the dataset administrator and can also be seen immediately by all users of the Gateway. You can comment on mulltiple records in one go so it doesn't have to be too onerous! This might be useful with regard to a query about potentially dodgy Actinia fragacea records that was raised in the Cnidarian group.

Paula Lightfoot iRecord also incorporates automated verification rules created by the MBA in consultation with many experts, these help flag up 'unusual' (aka potentially wrong!!) records, that are outside their known distribution or inherently difficult to identify.

Bernard Picton I was just looking at NBN mapping and found that people have been recording Actinia fragacea all round the UK. I think these are just the spotty version of Actinia equina. I don't have good photographs of A. fragacea, but would be interested to hear your opinions and see some photographs. A. fragacea is supposed to be confined to the south coast of England.

Bernard Picton This one is from southern Portugal.

Andy Horton Actinia equina can change into a full blown Actinia fragacea if you judge by appearances. Sussex coast specimens. I have kept them in captivity for over 10 years, possibly 15 years. This century I have not found so many Actinia fragacea as I have not been to the best locations. http://www.glaucus.org.uk/fragacea.htm

Andy Horton A typical Sussex specimen is likely to have pale tentacles: http://www.glaucus.org.uk/fragacea.jpg

Andy Horton This one was put down to Actinia equina: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150902996844065&set=oa.387114391301613&type=1&theater Not really enough spots for A. fragacea ???

Andy Horton This particular anemone got be hooked on needing to takes its portrait: http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Fragacea-2.jpg It was kept in captivity for over 12 years. Despite its pale tentacles it it its full complement of spots typical of Actinia fragacea. Unlike the normal Beadlets, it showed no sign of reproducing over all those years. I lost it to a Tompot Blenny which I did not know ate sea anemones at the time.

Becky Hitchin Simply from field observations, I'd say that fragacea are generally larger than equina, lower on the shore and more often in damp / wet places. But that's just ecological preferences.

Andy Horton I find that my field observations from Sussex that red, green or brown specimens are often found together. In captivity they can change colour over a period of weeks or months. Only brown or red specimens get green spots. The largest specimens are found on lower shore mussel beds, but not on all of them.

Jon Chamberlain I was very excited to "discover" Actinia fragacea in Eyemouth, only for Dawn to correct me that it was just Sagartia elegans (which is red and spotted when closed up). It just shows how important a good IDing network is to double check sightings. http://www.flickr.com/photos/underwaterinferno/8088015887/in/set-72157631770525541

Becky Hitchin Jon Chamberlain, I just did the same with a "strawberry" in Cove Bay ...

Andy Horton This is for the colour (not edited) and the few green spots. I think that Actinia equina and Actinia fragacea are the same species (depending on the the definition of species).

Andy Horton 19 May 2011 A large plain green specimen of the Beadlet Anemone, Actinia equina, collected on Worthing Beach on 18 April 2011 suddenly diminished in a manner seen before in the Actinia sea anemones. The green specimen with a basal diameter of approximately 60 mm and a larger tentacle span shrivelled up into a smaller version that looked as though it might be dying, and the tentacles became thinner than those of the Snakelocks Anemones, Anemonia viridis, and the oral disc disappeared from view covered by the partially retracted tentacles. On 20 May 2011, I noted that sea anemone had returned to its normal appearance. On 21 May 2011 I noticed that its column was covered in spots which were pronounced enough to be nearer in appearance to the designated species Actinia fragacea. Its spots were distinct light green but the background colour of the column became brown rather than red. It was slightly smaller with a basal diameter of about 50 mm. Intermediate forms or Actinia equina with green lines and spots are known to occur occasionally. This anemone has green tentacles whereas the usual "strawberry type" has crimson or red tentacles. http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Beadlet.htm

Andy Horton http://www.habitas.org.uk/marinelife/species.asp?item=d11510 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beadlet_anemone

Bernard Picton Thanks Andy, but I wasn't wanting reposting except in response to someone else's query. We've got this one secret so far so we'll need to set a good example.

Bernard Picton cross-posting I mean I suppose.

Bernard Picton Good start though, think of other people who are quite knowledgeable on Cnidaria and add them.

Andy Horton I have not posted this anywhere else and there is no link to this group from anywhere else. I will leave it up to you to advertise the group. But if you do not advertise it, somebody else will set up a group sooner or later. Facebook isn't very precious. I am not sure facebook is best for serious specialist groups. Yahoo Groups might be better? Spam can be an occasional nuisance for administrators. I have not found it to be the case.

Bernard Picton I don't want to generate work, just provide a resource. I'll make the group into closed status as soon as there is something to look at. I made the mistake of starting Seasearch Tunicates as a closed group and had people clamouring to get on while there was nothing yet there.

Bernard Picton I was just looking at NBN mapping and found that people have been recording Actinia fragacea all round the UK. I think these are just the spotty version of Actinia equina. I don't have good photographs of A. fragacea, but would be interested to hear your opinions and see some photographs. A. fragacea is supposed to be confined to the south coast of England.

Bernard Picton This one is from southern Portugal.

Andy Horton Actinia equina can change into a full blown Actinia fragacea if you judge by appearances. Sussex coast specimens. I have kept them in captivity for over 10 years, possibly 15 years. This century I have not found so many Actinia fragacea as I have not been to the best locations. http://www.glaucus.org.uk/fragacea.htm

Andy Horton A typical Sussex specimen is likely to have pale tentacles: http://www.glaucus.org.uk/fragacea.jpg

Andy Horton This one was put down to Actinia equina: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150902996844065&set=oa.387114391301613&type=1&theater Not really enough spots for A. fragacea ???

Andy Horton This particular anemone got be hooked on needing to takes its portrait: http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Fragacea-2.jpg It was kept in captivity for over 12 years. Despite its pale tentacles it it its full complement of spots typical of Actinia fragacea. Unlike the normal Beadlets, it showed no sign of reproducing over all those years. I lost it to a Tompot Blenny which I did not know ate sea anemones at the time.

Becky Hitchin Simply from field observations, I'd say that fragacea are generally larger than equina, lower on the shore and more often in damp / wet places. But that's just ecological preferences.

Andy Horton I find that my field observations from Sussex that red, green or brown specimens are often found together. In captivity they can change colour over a period of weeks or months. Only brown or red specimens get green spots. The largest specimens are found on lower shore mussel beds, but not on all of them.

Jon Chamberlain I was very excited to "discover" Actinia fragacea in Eyemouth, only for Dawn to correct me that it was just Sagartia elegans (which is red and spotted when closed up). It just shows how important a good IDing network is to double check sightings. http://www.flickr.com/photos/underwaterinferno/8088015887/in/set-72157631770525541

Becky Hitchin Jon Chamberlain, I just did the same with a "strawberry" in Cove Bay ...

Andy Horton These two sea anemones are having a fight. Anemonia viridis and Actinia equina.

Andy Horton Actinia equina displays aggressive behaviour towards neighbouring individuals. This aggressive behaviour is stimulated when the tentacles of adjacent anemones come into contact. The aggressor stings the victim with nematocysts, in the acrorhagi, which leads to the victim either crawling away or dropping off the substratum. The strawberry anemone, Actinia fragacea, is more plump than Actinia equina and is red to reddish brown in colour with greenish spots (Manuel, 1988). http://www.marlin.ac.uk/speciesinformation.php?speciesID=2359

Andy Horton Note the first use of scientific names in this case. However, in these two species the name Snakelocks and Beadlet are commonly used (English language). The pronunciation of the species name for Actinia varies.

Bernard Picton Gosse's names are OK, but inventing new ones isn't a good idea in my opinion. Ask any European if they've seen any glaucous pimplets recently and you'll get a blank look. QED.

Andy Horton The trend would seem more likely the removal of unsuitable common names. They cause more problems than scientific names.

Andy Horton Strawberry type Beadlet Anemone and juvenile Grey Mullet. This is a test posting because of faults.

Andy Horton This photograph was taken circa 1980 (Test message, again)

Andy Horton Is the species Actinia fragacea (if it is a good species?) or the strawberry type of Beadlet Anemone, Actinia equina, found in Norwegian seas?