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Aeolidiella indica

Bergh, 1888

Erwin Koehler I need help on the 'old Aeolidiella indica: The recent paper Carmona L., Pola M., Gosliner T.M. & Cervera J.L. 2013. A tale that morphology fails to tell: A molecular phylogeny of Aeolidiidae (Aeolidida, Nudibranchia, Gastropoda). PLoS ONE 8(5): e63000. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0063000, http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0063000 offers for specimens from Japan 2 names: Anteaeolidiella takanosimensis (Baba, 1930) and Anteaeolidiella cacaotica (Stimpson, 1855) here are 2 pictures from Manazuru, Sagami Bay, Japan - which species?

Erwin Koehler One more 'old' Aeolidiella indica - from Ratnagiri, Maharashtra, India, should I label this one Anteaeolidiella indica (Bergh, 1888) (species inquirenda)?

Ashley Missen Spurilla macleayi - Blairgowrie Pier - Port Phillip Bay - Victoria - Australia Length 10mm. Depth 3m. Temp 18 Deg

Mark Farrer WOW great find

Ashley Missen in an oyster shell too

Geoffrey Van Damme Very nice Ash

Michael Liarakos Great find Ash, well done.

Ashley Missen Not Me Glenys Greenwood found it

Gary Cobb I think this is Anteaeolidiella indica (Bergh, 1888) I can see a line a white blotches down the dorsum.

Ashley Missen Richard Willan ID it Gary as he was on the dive

Gary Cobb I'll leave it as that Ash. I think both species are very similar and at the end of the day we are only guessing. After all I am but a gentleman scientist swimming in a big nudibranch bowl.

Matthias Wildermuth At Botany Bay, 18 m on grey sponge, 2 to 3 mm ID? Maybe Baeolidia Australia but different colours? Any idea

Ashley Missen sorry no Idea - gary will probably know

Matthias Wildermuth Could be a anteaeolidiella indica?

Gary Cobb Can you please tell us all the correct size?? Do you have any other photos showing more of the front end? This is an exciting find!!

Gary Cobb It can't be Baeolidia because the rhinophores are smooth! I'll get back to you.

Matthias Wildermuth It was tiny no more then 3 or 4 mm, will check other photos and come back to u

Gary Cobb The substrate looks like the animal would be larger than that! Hummm...

Gary Cobb Thanks...will get back to you.

Matthias Wildermuth I dont think but can ask my.buddy. Was inside a grey sponge . Taken eith 60 mm macro lens and cropped the photo a good 50 %.so hard to remember but less then 10 mm. And i would think 3 to 5 . Will post one other photo but very similar.on the shots from front the head is always covered. What u see as subtrate is no seabed but a sponge.can take a photo of such a sponge next week if the weather is good enough to dive there

Matthias Wildermuth My buddy thinks 5 to 10 m So take the average ;-)) 7 mm and flat somehow

Ashley Missen Looking forward to how this pans out Matthias don't forget to send in to the database - cheers Ash

Matthias Wildermuth Will do soon

Ashley Missen thanks

Gary Cobb This beautiful critter is Spurilla macleayi (Angas, 1864)

Gary Cobb Matthias may I have your permission to use this photo in the new upcoming Australia/New Zealand iPhone App? Your name will be placed on the photo.

Matthias Wildermuth sure send me your email and and I send u a the big file, thanks for ID

Ashley Missen Great Find Matthias - it will be the first one in the database - Cheers Ash

Gary Cobb Thanks for your help gary@nudibranch.com.au

Matthias Wildermuth @Ash i only.took.a photo.Roxanne Found it actually

Ashley Missen I think Roxanne Need to get a Camera - but that being said it is always good to have a good spotter on the dive - I know some people in byron that use markers - the spotter puts the markers down the camera person takes the pics and collects the marker. not a bad system - Cheers Ash

Roxanne Fea I have a camera actually - but Matthias takes much better photos : ) Delighted that this beautiful nudi has been identified...

Ashley Missen For Stats - purpose I am not to fussy about the photo as Long as the nudi is identifiable I am happy as the stats are important to try do the trend analysis - so I hope to be seeing some stats from you soon

Lucas CerCur What I need from Mauritius or closer areas is some material of Antaeolidiella indica. This is the type locality. But, after the study of material from quite localities aund the world, this is a complex species. We have pontential old name to adscribe the material of such different regions, but we have not material from Mauritius!!!! So, waht's is A. indica?

Vishal Bhave Lucas CerCur Can you tell me what is the egg case color of True (as per current knowledge) A. indica. We are getting pale orange colored egg case with larger egg size (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9-IMpT6QJ2B_E_fKovGuKjHvxf0hpe8UDl63X0RblQE?feat=directlink) and other white egg cases (http://opisthobranchia.lifedesks.org/node/38)

Lucas CerCur Vishal I cannot reply you because I have seen only one specimen attributed to this species at the Strait of Gibraltar and no spawn was layed. The problem is that now we don't know what is A. indica.

Lucas CerCur We should study material from the Maruritius or closer region and compare with the results of sequencing that we hace from different areas of the World.

Lucas CerCur We have about 4-5 names corresponding to different regions that are considered as synonyms of A. indica. Then, we should know if material from Type Region matches with some of those names or not.

Vishal Bhave ok. but based on your experience with aeolids is it possible to lay 2 different egg case by single species ?? Yes, too much variation in Radula also.

Lucas CerCur In my experience, the egg mass of one species is similar usually.

Lucas CerCur Can exist exceptions. Thus, the type of the development can be different depending of the season (availability of food) in the same locality, as happens in Elysia timida.

Lucas CerCur And in other cases, the coloration of the eggs could depends of the food. But....

Lucas CerCur Very fwe cases.

Vishal Bhave Lucas CerCur I recently came across article on this entitled (Poecilogony and population genetic structure in Elysia pusilla (Heterobranchia: Sacoglossa), and reproductive data for five sacoglossans that express dimorphisms in larval development.) So, it can be possible in A. cf. indica??

Lucas CerCur I'm not sure. It is necessary to carry experiences to test this hypothesis.

Lucas CerCur It would be not serious to say "yes" or "not" without a basis.

Vishal Bhave True said, so its an opening to test its true or false

Vinicius Padula Brazilian specimens also present few and large eggs but I didn´t check the morphology of the larvae.

Vishal Bhave Vinicius Padula In your "Vinicius Padula Monografia 2007.pdf" file on page 29 of pdf you have added simmilar redish egg case with larger eggs :D

Vinicius Padula Exactly, this ´species´ has big eggs in Brazil :)

Vishal Bhave so you don't get white egg laying one there?

Christian Skauge A very strange aeolid found at Gulen Dive Resort, Norway, 09.04.2011, approximately 22 meters. I have no idea about this one! F. verrucosa has been suggested. Any thoughts?

Christian Skauge Sorry, forgot about size - saw them from 2-4 cm long, approximately.

Robert Eriksson F verrucosa, is not likely. Pappilae semmes to be in the anerior part of rhinophores, and cerata to furry. Seems to be pedunculate as well, protruding from sides eather than back... Will thinkmore about this!

Christian Skauge Thanks Robert, we really need help on this one! It's one of the trickiest slugs I've come across in Norway, and I really have no idea what to make of it.

Christian Skauge When I say 'we' it's because I found this on dives with Bjørnar Nygård - he's got some images of them too. But no-one has been able to help us with the identification, so I'm really hanging my hope on all you experts in this group :-)

Bernard Picton Berghia has rhinophores like this, and I think the digestive gland in the cerata branched like this. I only know of tropical and Mediterranean Berghia though, have to look it up.

Christian Skauge Oooh, please do!! That would have been somewhat of a sensation, don't you think?

Bernard Picton http://www.european-marine-life.org/14/photo-berghia-verrucicornis-ml10.php

Christian Skauge Quite similar, but more slender. Ours could be freezing though... Found another one also quite similar - Anteaeolidiella indica. Still looking into it regarding knobbly-wobbly (correct scientific term, yes?) rhinophores. http://www.gastropods.com/0/Shell_49710.shtml

João Pedro Silva A few months ago I've seen some photos by Cláudio Brandão of an animal similar to this one. Cláudio, could you post one here please? Lucas Cervera suspected it was Spurilla neapolitana but the ones I've found that deep were pinkish. Yet, they vary a lot and those near the surface I've found here were brown (more zooxanthellae?).

Christian Skauge Wow, wait a minute! We DO have one Berghia species in Norway - Berghia norvegica (Odhner, 1939). I am however completely unable to find a single image online...

Christian Skauge Jussi; take a look at this! Remember the two specimens I gave you last year? This is one of them. Maybe we have a Berghia on our hands, that would be fun! If you have the time, please check your references ;-)

Christian Skauge Is even this one a possibility? Almost the same "kissable lips" in the first picture, and many similartities. Still can't find any info on the rhinophores though... http://www.seaslugforum.net/find/aeolsang

Christian Skauge A lot of thinking aloud here, please bear with me... After reading up on it, I believe we can rule out Aeolidiella sp. They should have smooth rhinophores. Bernard, your Berghia theory looks stronger and stronger! But - is ist a B. verrucicornis or the (at least online) almost mythical B. norvegica?

Bernard Picton Ha! Look I'll be away for a few days, so can't follow this up. But if Odhner had a Berghia in Norway that sounds good. Do you know there's a database of available names at WoRMS. It's not perfect yet, but a good place to start.

Bernard Picton http://www.marinespecies.org/aphia.php?p=taxdetails&id=138718

Christian Skauge Yes, I checked it and there is not much info on this. It seems there are two initial records of it from the 30'ies, and that it has not been seen since. I will place my trust in Jussi, he has the original paperwork at hand, I think :-)

Jussi Evertsen If this is a Berghia, a quick look at the teeth would give us the answer in no time - did anyone collect any specimens? I cant recall seeing it at Gulen in march last year.

Christian Skauge I handed you two specimens when I stopped by in Trondheim in mid-April, 2010. This was one of them :-)

Jussi Evertsen Right, I will have to arrange some workdays at the museum ASAP then :)

Christian Skauge Me like :-)

Jussi Evertsen Well, we have had a go at the small specimen that Christian gave to us here in Trondheim, and we can confirm so far that the rhinophores are papillate and that the arrangement of the cerata are quite distinct. The molecular results puts it toghether with the aeolidiid nudibranchs as a separate species. However, since this is our only specimens we are reluctant to start cutting out the radula since it is so small and fragile, so we will put it on hold until we find more specimens at the workshop in Gulen in the end of March.

Christian Skauge woo-hoo exciting news! I say cut away - we'll find more, I am sure of it :-D

Christian Skauge Have forgotten to update on this post: A couple days before the Nuidbranch Safari at Gulen I did a dive to see if I could find this strange slug again - and lo and behold I did! Not just once - it kept turning up in good numbers all through the safari. We collected several specimens, egg masses and shot some video of it also to capture the rather peculiar behaviour. Jussi & Torkild seems to me more and more sure it is in fact a Berghia norvegica. We're still awaiting confirmation though, so stay tuned :-)

Robert Eriksson Christian Skauge, here's a comment on my previous comment... After this weekends nudie-frenzy I recalled some long forgotten images of juvenile F. verrucosa. Juvenile F. verrucosa looks almost like the one in your photo (dense furry cerata), but they still have the typical white pigments on rhinophores, oral tentacles and cerata. Sometimes F. verrucosa have wrinkled/knobbly/wobbly rhinophores so they are polymorphic when it comes to the rhinphore structure. So, the only way of ruling out your animal from being a juvenile F. verrucosa is the white pigmentation and the size, and similar looking animals with eggs or eggs in body in the vincinity. Obviously you can always look at radula, but without killing the animal your are indeed confined to white pigmentation and size. Both of which are not the best (stabile) characters...

Christian Skauge Your point being...? The radula will tell us tomorrow, I just got word - but there will be a cold day in a certain place before this is a F. verrucosa... :-)

Message posted on NE Atlantic Nudibranchs on 05 Feb 2012
Lucas CerCur Hi everybody, is it possible that some of you have (or will have) the chance to dive in Mauritius and Samoa, or surrounding areas of these regions?

Patrik Good Might be able to help with a contact. The brother of a work collegue is a diving instructor on Mauritius. Interested at all?

Lucas CerCur Yes. From Mauritius, I'll be interested to have some specimens (with photos) of the so called Antaeolidiella indica.

Lucas CerCur Mauritius is the type region. So, after to be sure (we have the data) that A. indica is a complex of sibblig species, it is very important to check material from that, in order to solve the validity of several old names.

Animalia (Kingdom)
  Mollusca (Phylum)
    Gastropoda (Class)
      Heterobranchia (Subclass)
        Opisthobranchia (Infraclass)
          Nudibranchia (Order)
            Dexiarchia (Suborder)
              Aeolidida (Infraorder)
                Aeolidioidea (Superfamily)
                  Aeolidiidae (Family)
                    Aeolidiella (Genus)
                      Aeolidiella indica (Species)
Associated Species