Flabellina verrucosa

Erling Svensen Long and short cerrata Flabellina verrucosa mating. I have never seen this before. From Kristiansund - Norway today (National day of Norway)

Ian Smith Ingrid Thea Olberg, I think the cerata of your small specimen 3rd August look much more like those of the larger Flabellina verrucosa in this image posted in May by Erling than of the slender cerata of lineata (which should have a white line running along the sides of the body). I'm not saying it is verrucosa, but I think it's a better suggestion than lineata. 2mm is sane for many spp. of nudibranch, two weeks ago I recorded 5 species , the largest specimens of which varied between 1.3 mm and 3.5mm.

Ingrid Thea Ølberg Well.. I think we namedropped about 4 or 5 species whilst discussing what the little fella could be. It had some lines, but was not very lineatacaracteristic... but because of the lines, we couldn't quite agree on the veruccosa. Actually.. The only thing I think we agreed on was that it was a Nudibranch Sp. and that there should be Sci-Fi on tv :D

Pat Gunderson Flabellina verrucosa or Flabellina triophina

Erling Svensen 3 different Flabellina verrucosa from todays dive....

Ian Smith A very interesting series, Erling. If Robert Eriksson's study showing that different forms have the same DNA was of specimens like these, it leaves open the possibility that British F. verrucosa rufibranchialis is a different species as it has a narrow band of white pigment distally on the cerata, and these all have a wide band/cap. It would be helpful to have a DNA comparison of photographed specimens from Norway and Britain. I'd really like a clear view of the underside to compare propodial tentacles of the different forms. Any chance of you bringing some up to photograph while they crawl under the water surface or a piece of submerged glass?

Erling Svensen Well, at this divesite (in the centre of Norways 4. biggest city, Stavanger) we have for the time being 1000-sends of them. So yes, it is of course possible.

Erling Svensen Again this quite strange Flabellina verrucosa - Lysefjord, Norway.

Jørn Ari Is it the oral tentacles you find strange?

Erling Svensen Yes, or...? And the white line on the tail too....

Bernard Picton Ok, Erling, this is the typical form that I have here in Northern Ireland. It was named originally as Eolis rufibranchialis and is the type species of the genus Coryphella, which means it defines the genus. It is thought to be the same species as F. verrucosa and Robert Eriksson got some DNA evidence that this is the case. It would be interesting to do some mating experiments between the two forms, you need to set up a small aquarium!! I would love a copy of this photo at full resolution as you can see details of the ganglia (brain) and the nerve and separate ganglion at the base of the rhinophore.

Erling Svensen I will send the high res. Bernard. It at my work so expect it tomorrow :-)

Robert Eriksson Mating experiments is indeed a nice way to go about it! Anyone's got a flow-through aquarium with deep sea water, feeling tempted?!? I never had the time to do that kind of study, but I realize that even though we have some results frpm genes, we haven't studied this case from a biological species concept yet...

Erling Svensen From yesterdays dive. We have "millions" of Flabellina verrucosa for the moment. Just amazing how many they manage to be in such a short time. One was out swimming. May be to many at this location so he/she was looking for a better place to be?

Bernard Picton Even if they look the same take photographs of quite a lot of them Erling. Especially if you see mating pairs like these ones... Your floating one seems to have the more elongate cerata, which are supposed to change shape. I wonder if it is hungry?

Erling Svensen I will try next time to ask if he was hungry ;-). Why do you want pictures of so many? I think There was thousends of them in just one spot, on a shipwreck actually. Very strange, but this wreck every year at this time have sooooo many of them covering the whole wreck. But why, Bernard?

Bernard Picton They are probably all one species, but possibly there is a second species amongst them. There are several Coryphella or Flabellina species which eat Tubularia and Eudendrium and probably swap food sources as they grow up. This F. verrucosa seems to eat the fixed stage of jellyfish (scyphistomae). So photographs of individuals will help establish whether they change appearance as they grow or change diet. You will be looking at an inter-breeding population instead of individuals. With digital photography we can start to record the natural variation...

Jørn Ari Mutant Flabellina verrucosa

Susana Martins WOW!!!!

Brendan Oonk To weird to press "like". Thanks for sharing this picture

Bernard Picton Staghorn flabellina.... This is thought to be the result of damage and regrowth of the rhinophores, but this one is really extreme!

David Kipling Mollusc of the Glen.

Jim Anderson Did you post this for halloween?

Jørn Ari @Jim. Yes. Its dressed like a reindeer

Jerry Shine Flabellina verrucosa, off Portsmouth, New Hampshire, US

Vinicius Padula Marvelous!!! Congrats!

Jerry Shine Thanks, Vinicius. The larger one was about 12mm.

Anne Diver Jerry, that's a really nice gaggle of nudibranchs! Great photo

Jerry Shine Thanks, Anne.

Anne Diver OK Jerry, what was your water temp?

Vinicius Padula Really nice see the feeding behaviour, the polyps being eaten!

Jerry Shine @ Anne, 52 degrees. Our nudibranch season doesn't really start up here, though, until water temps get down into the low 40s.

Anne Diver Well Jerry, I can't spell D-r-y s-u-i-t !

Jerry Shine You should be here when water temps get down into the low 30s!

Jørn Ari Mutant Flabellina verrucosa

Rudolf Svensen Anybody know which nudi this is? I found it on about 40 meters depth on muddy bottom on the South-West coast of Norway.

Rudolf Svensen it's about 10 mm long.

Erling Svensen Flabellina verrucosa, I think.

Nils Aukan Same found here too, Flabellina verrucosa.

Erling Svensen Long and short cerrata Flabellina verrucosa mating. I have never seen this before. From Kristiansund - Norway today (National day of Norway)

Ian Smith Ingrid Thea Olberg, I think the cerata of your small specimen 3rd August look much more like those of the larger Flabellina verrucosa in this image posted in May by Erling than of the slender cerata of lineata (which should have a white line running along the sides of the body). I'm not saying it is verrucosa, but I think it's a better suggestion than lineata. 2mm is sane for many spp. of nudibranch, two weeks ago I recorded 5 species , the largest specimens of which varied between 1.3 mm and 3.5mm.

Ingrid Thea Ølberg Well.. I think we namedropped about 4 or 5 species whilst discussing what the little fella could be. It had some lines, but was not very lineatacaracteristic... but because of the lines, we couldn't quite agree on the veruccosa. Actually.. The only thing I think we agreed on was that it was a Nudibranch Sp. and that there should be Sci-Fi on tv :D

George Brown A close-up of the ceratal tips of Flabellina sp. posted on Monday 26th November. Found in Loch Fyne, Scotland. For Bernard Picton.

Bernard Picton George Brown, Craig Muirhead, I think these are Flabellina verrucosa, but they are unusually pale. This may be because of the food source (scyphistomae). In George's photo the pigmentation of the cerata seems to be the same as in mine and Norwegian ones are quite different. Nevertheless we should be wary as there are probably several other Flabellina in our area. The radulae show some differences, so a specimen to check would be good. I just uploaded a new photo: http://www.habitas.org.uk/marinelife/photo.asp?item=BEP2_1008

George Brown Many thanks for this valuable information Bernard. The detail in the cerata looks identical to me. I see from your species description that detail in the tail can also assist identification so will try and record that next time.

Craig Muirhead George Brown, I found something similar a couple of weeks ago at Finnart, Long Long. Same animal?

George Brown Great shot Craig. They look very similar. Was it eating anything in the neighbourhood?

Craig Muirhead Looked like it was on it's way to somewhere and not actually feeding George, but there was plenty of scyphistoma in close proximity.

Jim Anderson This too could be Flabellina verrucosa

Bernard Picton Only looked at it on my iPod, so was hesitating. It has the defining characteristic of F. verrucosa, the tail stripe with transparent patches in it. I do think there is something odd about F. verrucosa though and sometimes worry that we might be overlooking another species here. Interested that Terry said F. salmonacea. Could you post a close-up of the ceratal tips showing the white bands?

Craig Muirhead Added an album Bernard. Not great shots I'm afraid but might help.

Erling Svensen Some dayes ago I shared this picture with you. What kind of specie could it be? It looks so strange. I was thinking of F. lineata, but?

Jim Anderson I don't recognise it but it does not look like any F. lineata I have seen.

Bernard Picton I'm pretty certain that this is a small Flabellina verrucosa. Note the pink jaws and line on the tail only.

Erling Svensen Yes, thanks Bernard. It was quite tiny, and my eyes are not that good anymore. Getting old you know... ;-)

Erlendur Guðmundsson

Erlendur Guðmundsson Taken today in north of Iceland in 6 meters and 4°C.

Jørn Ari Looks like a Flabellina verrucosa

Ken Thongpila Nice shot... brrrrr 4C.....

Paula Lightfoot Is this Coryphella verrucosa? Or do I mean rufibranchialis? From the Farnes. It has narrow white rings on the cerata like David Kipling's photo below.

Paula Lightfoot I'd missed all those comments from January - that is interesting (and confusing!). I guess I will record it as Coryphella verrucosa for now, simply because rufibranchialis isn't available as a name to record against. It's good that online recording systems let us keep the photo as part of the record now, so if new names become available it will be easier to redetermine existing records if necessary.

Erling Svensen Looks like Flabellina verrucosa. ;-)

Ian Smith And looks like Eolis rufibranchialis Johnston on Family 3 plate 14 in Alder and Hancock, (attached). Until it is agreed on whether one or two species, it is safest to record such specimens found in Britain as Coryphella verrucosa rufibranchialis (Johnston, 1832), the name used by Thompson & Brown in "British Opisthobranch Molluscs" Lin. Soc. 1976.

Paula Lightfoot Agree but that name isn't an option to record against at the moment - it is in WoRMS but not in MS BIAS - maybe it can be added.

Bernard Picton I think MSBIAS is flawed in the way the list was drawn up. As the type locality of rufibranchialis is in the MSBIAS area it should be on the list. We also need to record segregate species as soon as there is doubt about the correctness of a synonymy. In fact George Brown has photographed true C. verrucosa in Shetland, so both names are needed in the MSBIAS area. The fact that they have different distributions is indicative of species level status so accurate distribution records are vital.

Paula Lightfoot Think this is rufibranchialis again, from the Durham Heritage Coast today. I've now seen it at Farnes, Strangford, St Abbs and here, if only we had a name to record it!

Bernard Picton It is OK to record it in the UK as C. verrucosa until we get those two published as separate species. It looks as though true C. verrucosa is only in Shetland, Norway, Denmark, etc. This is always a problem when a species is split, as often it is impossible to correctly attribute the old records unless the distributions are different.

Ian Smith I think F. verrucosa as described by Sars comes further south than Shetland; here's an image by George from Loch Fyne that he posted last November https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4556627606450&set=a.4556627246441.168992.1614272106&type=1&theater

Bernard Picton Ian, I don't think this is C. verrucosa. I have seen this species in Iceland, but could never identify it. I have a good feel for C. verrucosa now, we saw 100's at Gulen.

Ian Smith Bernard do you agree with Robert Eriksson's posting of 30 Dec (copied below)? I find it hard to reconcile with the two (or 3 spp.) view, so I'm unsettled as to what to think. : Robert Eriksson "I did a DNA study of the long ceratal form (previoucly described as Flabellina rufibranchialis) vs this short cerata form (Flabellina verrucosa) a few years ago. The resultat was published in Organims and Diversity. Genetically there's no difference between the forms. I concluded that the species is polymorphic when it comes to COI and ITS2. And regarding the shape of the ceratas i also found in an adjacent study (unpubl) that the animals are able to longen or shorten the cerata. Regarding the coilour it all depends on hat they feed upon. White pigmentation is extremely variable all give no additional info as to deduce species."

Bernard Picton In Norway I found C. rufibranchialis as well as two forms of C. verrucosa. C. verrucosa does have variations in the ceratal shape. It was in shallower water on kelp whilst C. rufibranchialis was on Tubularia in deeper water. I think Robert probably had only C. verrucosa in his material. The two are very similar and I think it was only because I've seen hundreds of them that I saw the differences.

Ian Smith Thanks Bernard, the thought had entered my mind. DNA comparison of British rufibranchialis with Scandinavian verrucosa would settle it, I think.

Robert Eriksson I look forward to see the results of these future studies! Please keep me in the loop. Come winter we will have two nudibranch safaris collecting material for the natural history museum. Why not collaborate to resolve this, Bernard Picton , Ian Smith?

Bernard Picton Jussi Evertsen and Torkild Bakken had some sequence data from Norwegian specimens they had tentatively identified as C. browni. I think they were actually C. rufibranchialis. They had quite different CO1 sequences to C. verrucosa. We need to repeat the experiment with more specimens and more localities but we are working on all Coryphella (Flabellina) as they are so tricky.

George Brown Hi Bernard, Ian and others. If my photo is not Flabellina verrucosa could you please tell me the correct name? I don't want to add erroneous names to photos on these excellent pages.

Ian Smith Hi George. I thought it was very like Rudolf's posting which Erling said was verrucosa; what I'd say is intermediate between the two Scandinavian forms of F. verrucosa (also yours is with the right?? food) : https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153178364465162&set=gm.433106773467275&type=1&theatre But B said yours is like an unknown sp. he's had in Iceland, so I'm backing off. You never know, you may have the first British record of it when it gets a name :-) I think we'll have to wait until Bernard and others have finished sequencing/ sorting all the Flabellina spp. -as B says, it's tricky.

George Brown Many thanks Ian. Will edit the text as soon as I gather consensus.

David Fenwick Snr Is it possible to identify this egg mass, was found under a rock on the lowershore at Little London reef, Marazion, Cornwall. 24.08.13. Thanks.

Erling Svensen Looks like Flabellina verrucosa for me.

David Kipling Tritonia lineata does nice little spirals too, but then again I think a few other species will...

Arne Kuilman Get this card or ask them: https://www.facebook.com/ZoekkaartNederlandseZeenaaktslakken I've got one at home and will have a look for you later.

Brendan Oonk I don't think yoy will find it on that card Arne. These eggs don't look like they are by a species of nudi that lives in The Netherlands...

Arne Kuilman It's not on the chart indeed )-: circlewise it's kind of like Elysia eggs.

João Pedro Silva The eggs I've found from Elysia viridis were much smaller: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpsilva1971/7741931486/

Arne Kuilman I meant look like. Elysian doesn't lay under rocks, just the spiral pattern

Erling Svensen Looks like these...... http://uwphoto.no/shopexd.asp?id=14044

Brendan Oonk Erling is that the reason you said they were Flabelina verucosa eggs ;)

Erling Svensen Yes, it is. They are quite typical in the outher edge, so for me they looks quite F. verrucosa like.

Erling Svensen In winter we have millions of F. verrucosa, the most common nudi in Egersund and Stavanger. And lots of eggs.

Bernard Picton Cornwall is too far south for F. verrucosa. On the other hand I don't know these eggs I'm afraid. Aeolidiella glauca does lay a straight spiral a bit like this.

Brendan Oonk It is not A. glauca.

Erling Svensen Could be this verrucosa think it is too cold here up in the North and will expand the summer by mooving South?

Brendan Oonk Here you can see A.glauca + eggs http://www.natuurbericht.nl/?id=2727

David Fenwick Snr I'm still trying to find a sea slug to match up with it at the moment but nudibranchs seem few and far between at the moment. The only sea slug found today was a 2mm Palio nothus, a sea slug that has consistantly turned up for us throughout the year this year.

David Fenwick Snr Another image of A. glauca. http://www.conchsoc.org/node/5853

David Kipling https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=332958726789556&set=oa.266943763416911&type=3&theater

David Kipling T. lineata caught laying eggs like this ...

David Fenwick Snr Can only find on record of this species for Cornwall David and it was for 3-4 miles offshore. Going to have to keep my eyes open if it is this species.

David Kipling Really? Common as muck up here (albeit Skomer is more sediment-rich and T lineata seems to thrive here). Let me have a look to see whether it's in my Cornish albums, perhaps it doesn't like the clear water down with you ...

Becky Hitchin Stop bragging! :P

David Kipling That's why it's a MNR ;) Biodiversity hotspot!

Terry Griffiths And a few around Torquay.

Bernard Picton Great photo David Kipling! I've never seen T. lineata spawn but it is a good match. They are not normally found on shore in my experience so altogether some interesting observations in this thread.

KÃ¥re Telnes Anyone able to identify this one? From Gulen, the West coast of Norway, this weekend. Water depth 14 meters, approx 15 mm long. F. nobilis?

Richard Yorke I'm no expert, but how about Cuthona rubescens

Steven Melvin Flabellina verrucosa?

Peter H van Bragt the lines of white pigment on the various head tentacles are very much indicative for C. rubescens

Steven Melvin Ah yes I believe you are right. F.verrucosa appears to have more of a white line that runs down the rhinophores, where as C. rubescens it appears more dotted like white pigments

KÃ¥re Telnes Thanks for your replies! Checking my regular sources, I must agree it looks very much like C. rubescens. The only thing is that it seems to lack the red coloration at the base of the cerata, as described by Bernard Picton at http://www.habitas.org.uk/marinelife/ .

Ian Smith Steven Melvin there's an unread offlist message in your messages -click messages in menu on left of this page to see it.

Gary Cobb I think this is Trinchesiaa concinna (Alder & Hancock, 1843)

Terry Griffiths Kare when i left they were still talking about this one and 3 others could be new ones.

Steven Melvin Ian Smith, I do not see any message folders on this page other than my private messages, that has nothing related to this

Bernard Picton This is quite common at Gulen at the moment and Dag Leslie Hansen photographed it in 2010. It is a Eubranchus, quite similar to E. pallidus, but lacking most of the brown spotting. We are not sure if it is a local variant, but typical E. pallidus are here too, so it could be an undescribed species. I'm calling it Eubranchus cf. pallidus.

KÃ¥re Telnes Thanks for the help. I guess I'll not publish the images on www.seawater.no unless anyone at Gulen figures it out. Please, let me know if you do!

Gary Cobb Bernard why do you think this is Eubranchus? This photo has characteristics of Trinchesia concinna.

Bernard Picton Gary, I'm looking at it down a microscope...

KÃ¥re Telnes Did the look in the microscope bring you to any conclusion?

Christian Skauge I think we concluded that this is a variety of Eubranchus pallidus. Bernard came across it mating with a more typical-looking specimen :-)

Bernard Picton Not quite mating, but in compromising circumstances....

George Brown Might this be Cuthona nana? Found grazing scyphistoma polyp phase of Aurelia aurita. Pinnacles in the middle of Loch Fyne (location to be confirmed).

Terry Gosliner This looks like Flabellina salmonacea to me.

Joanne Porter Beautiful image George Brown

George Brown Thank you Terry. Checking SSF, the nudibranch does indeed have "subapical white band on cerata". I'll crop and post a close-up of the cerata.

George Brown Thank you Joanne. Are you on the next Seasearch Orkney trip? Can't wait! Was there a couple of weeks ago but it was all wide angle/fisheye stuff. Kept getting distracted finding nudibranchs!

Joanne Porter I will be on the next seasearch trip! Looking forward to seeing you there George Brown. We saw a few nudibranchs but we could have done with some help from you for identifying them.

Jim Anderson Could it be Catriona gymnota?

Marco Faasse I'm not sure which species of nudibranch this is. Anyway, Flabellina/Coryphella verrucosa is known as a predator of scyphopolyps: Hydrobiologia 355: 21â€"28, 1997. A. D. Naumov, H. Hummel, A. A. Sukhotin & J. S. Ryland (eds), Interactions and Adaptation Strategies of Marine Organisms. Abundance, feeding behaviour and nematocysts of scyphopolyps (Cnidaria) and nematocysts in their predator, the nudibranch Coryphella verrucosa (Mollusca) Carina O¨ stman

George Brown Thank you Jim and Marco. I'll be posting a close-up of the cerata later. Anything else I can do to assist id?

Jim Anderson On mature reflection I agree with Marco - Flabellina verrucosa

Shôn Roberts Coryphella Browni Photo taken in the Menai Straits, Anglesey North Wales.

Jim Anderson It looks more like Flabellina verrucosa to me.

Shôn Roberts It could be. Someone else at Seasearch has said the same. Look very similar though.

Jørn Ari OLYMPUS E-420 Jorn Ari

Jim Anderson Looks like Flabellina verrucosa to me.

Bernard Picton The broad white bands at the tips of the cerata are more typical of Flabellina browni. The rhinophores and oral tentacles both look robust. We must not forget Flabellina borealis in your region; as far as I know it has not been photographed, but looks a bit like this.

Bernard Picton How big was it, Jorn?

Jørn Ari I guess it´s 15-20 mm Its two years ago and before I started recording my observations.

Bjørnar Nygård Found this small thing, about 5-10mm long, on yesterdays dive. Is it a F. gracilis or is it F. browni ?

Jim Anderson I would say F. browni

Jussi Evertsen Why not a Flabellina verrucosa?

Bjørnar Nygård So it might be a juvenile Flabellina verrucosa?

Christian Skauge I'm with Jussi on this one - it just ate something a little different than usual ;-)