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Tritonia plebeia

Johnston, 1828


Erling Svensen And this one a Tritonia plebeia. Saw many nudies today, and a least 10 of this one. I have descoverd a new way to find nudies...... Very easy and good way to find them.

Jim Anderson ... and that way is?

Christian Skauge The way of the falcon - lookin' real hard :-D

Erling Svensen The way is to find a vertical wall with a lot of Alcyonium and hydroids. The best is if the wall is like hanging out over your head. Then you just bresths out. The air does the job and all the nice nudies just "falls" down in front of you......

David Kipling Do you catch them and put them back afterwards? (on their correct foods of course!)

Erling Svensen Yes, that is the best way to do it.

David Kipling We have been known to bring a nudi to the surface and then do a second dive to return it to its home! OK it was an unusual one and we are sentimental ...!

David Kipling We even checked its food and habitat requirements and returned it to the right sort of place!

Erling Svensen Remind me of Chile. We dived in an national park in the fjords. Bjorn Gulliksen brought up echinoderms for registration - one of each kind. But one kind he got two of. Then the Huinai "people" told him to take the boat out and dive for releasing it at the same place as collecting it, instead of just putting it back from the quay.... Well, we laughed of it, there were thousends in the fjord.

Bernard Picton I'll have to send you all some vials of ethanol so you can preserve them for posterity! Sometimes when I go into my store at the museum I worry that I'm a mass-murderer! I console myself by saying "each one lays thousands of eggs, only lives for a year or less....". It really is hard for us to get our heads round the dynamics of this type of life strategy, but for sure our greatest contribution needs to be teaching others to value, respect and conserve the habitats, not the individuals.

Jim Anderson Christian, They Way of the Falcon - I tried it - it works!! - found lots of tiny little doto and others yesterday - but my flash batteries were drained so no images!

Christian Skauge haha that's great Jim (the looking part, not the battery part) ;-)

Erling Svensen Bernard - please send 100% etanol to me for "preserving" animals and "human"....... I have learned from prefessors in Norway that this etanol can do more than just preserving animals.....

Bernard Picton Now you've told me how to find Tritonia plebeia I'll see what I can do! I always see their spawn coils, but they are so well camouflaged, will try the bubble netting technique next time.

João Pedro Silva I'll try that, too :)

Message posted on NE Atlantic Nudibranchs on 03 Mar 2012
Erling Svensen And this one a Tritonia plebeia. Saw many nudies today, and a least 10 of this one. I have descoverd a new way to find nudies...... Very easy and good way to find them.

Jim Anderson ... and that way is?

Christian Skauge The way of the falcon - lookin' real hard :-D

Erling Svensen The way is to find a vertical wall with a lot of Alcyonium and hydroids. The best is if the wall is like hanging out over your head. Then you just bresths out. The air does the job and all the nice nudies just "falls" down in front of you......

David Kipling Do you catch them and put them back afterwards? (on their correct foods of course!)

Erling Svensen Yes, that is the best way to do it.

David Kipling We have been known to bring a nudi to the surface and then do a second dive to return it to its home! OK it was an unusual one and we are sentimental ...!

David Kipling We even checked its food and habitat requirements and returned it to the right sort of place!

Erling Svensen Remind me of Chile. We dived in an national park in the fjords. Bjorn Gulliksen brought up echinoderms for registration - one of each kind. But one kind he got two of. Then the Huinai "people" told him to take the boat out and dive for releasing it at the same place as collecting it, instead of just putting it back from the quay.... Well, we laughed of it, there were thousends in the fjord.

Bernard Picton I'll have to send you all some vials of ethanol so you can preserve them for posterity! Sometimes when I go into my store at the museum I worry that I'm a mass-murderer! I console myself by saying "each one lays thousands of eggs, only lives for a year or less....". It really is hard for us to get our heads round the dynamics of this type of life strategy, but for sure our greatest contribution needs to be teaching others to value, respect and conserve the habitats, not the individuals.

Jim Anderson Christian, They Way of the Falcon - I tried it - it works!! - found lots of tiny little doto and others yesterday - but my flash batteries were drained so no images!

Christian Skauge haha that's great Jim (the looking part, not the battery part) ;-)

Erling Svensen Bernard - please send 100% etanol to me for "preserving" animals and "human"....... I have learned from prefessors in Norway that this etanol can do more than just preserving animals.....

Bernard Picton Now you've told me how to find Tritonia plebeia I'll see what I can do! I always see their spawn coils, but they are so well camouflaged, will try the bubble netting technique next time.

João Pedro Silva I'll try that, too :)

Message posted on NE Atlantic Nudibranchs on 03 Mar 2012
Erling Svensen I send in a picture from 16. of January. I saw this tiny litle nudy on a Alcyonium in Egersund harbour (South West Norway). Could it be a small Dentronotus frondosus, or what do you think? It was only 1,5 cm long.

David Kipling Baby Tritonia hombergii perhaps? Right food source.

Erling Svensen May be. I did not think of this one but I am quite sure this is correct.

Christian Skauge This looks like a Tritonia plebeia. You can tell them apart by the mouth part - T. hombergi has two broad veils, and not the tentacles dispolayed by the T. plebeia. Food is the same in both species - Alcyonium digitatum, dead men's fingers.

David Kipling Thanks Christian. I was looking at those distinct oral processes and it seemed a bit wrong for T. hombergii, didn't know about this other species.

Christian Skauge Although it is distibuted from western med to Norway, this a quite small (max 30mm) and inconspicuous species. Not many people see it at all, and when they do it is commonly percieved as a baby hombergi - have done it myself for years :-)

Bernard Picton I think young T. hombergi might have only a few tentacles on the oral veil. For me the colour of T. plebeia is quite different. http://www.habitas.org.uk/marinelife/species.asp?item=W12460

Marco Faasse Maybe Rob Maller has a photo of a white Tritinia plebeia from the Netherlands?

Message posted on NE Atlantic Nudibranchs on 03 Feb 2012
João Pedro Silva Is this Tritonia plebeia? Os a juvenile T. hombergii? Found this morning in Sesimbra, Portugal, approx. 5m deep, water temp. 17ºC. ~5mm long. "Small detail": I know this dive site pretty well and have never seen Alcyonium digitatum there or nearby.

João Pedro Silva Another shot of the same specimen.

João Pedro Silva And another

João Pedro Silva

João Pedro Silva Any hints on this?

Brendan Oonk I would say T. plebeia. T. hombergii is usualy more wide and the gills on the side differ in size. This nudi is rather slender and the gills are all roughly the same size

João Pedro Silva Thanks, Brendan! I thought so but I wanted a confirmation as it's the first time I've seen this species.

Brendan Oonk My response is based on books, never saw T.hombergii

Klas Malmberg Aquatilis T. plebeia because of the fingerlike processes on the oral veil, 3-4 per side, T.hombergi has more and smaller processes and the oral veil is bilobed.

João Pedro Silva Thanks, Klas Malmberg! Brendan, until last February I also hadn't seen T. hombergii.

Message posted on NE Atlantic Nudibranchs on 26 Jun 2013
Bjørnar Nygård Found a couple of nice nudibranchs on todays dive. Here is a beautiful Palio dubia and a small Tritonia plebeia (I think).

Message posted on NE Atlantic Nudibranchs on 05 Jun 2013
Stephan Durst Hello, Does anyone know what veliger-larva of Tritonia plebeia feed on ore prefer? Thank you, Stephan

Nathalie Yonow ouch - you will have to try all sorts of microscopic algae, then various combinations... Larvae are a nightmare :(

Stephan Durst Yes they are…

Message posted on NUDIBRANCH LOVERS on 24 Oct 2013
João Pedro Silva Tritonia plebeia Local: Sesimbra, Portugal Spot: Baleeira Profundidade: 10m Data: 03-07-2013

Message posted on Nudibranquios on 08 Sep 2013
João Pedro Silva 3 in 1: what was supposed to be a photo of Doriopsilla areolata + spawn turned out to be also a photo of Favorinus branchialis feeding. Shot in Berlengas, Portugal.

John Sexton Haha, nice shot. I just bought myself a magnifying glass to dive with just to be able to see this small stuff! Do you have your micro lens ready?

João Pedro Silva John Sexton, without a magnifying lens you've pointed me a tiny Tritonia plebeia (I had to shoot it and playback the image to make sure it was indeed a nudibranch). I guess I'll have to get myself a portable underwater electron microscope.

David Kipling That's almost wide-angle though. (Not to mention you need a vacuum for SEM or TEM). What you need is a cantilever AFM, that'll work fine provided you can control your buoyancy enough to hold it stilll ...

Gary Cobb Nice shot Joao!

João Pedro Silva I'll ask for one of Howard Hall's IMAX 3D housings.

David Kipling http://www.photographyblog.com/news/fujifilm_3d_w3_camera_and_housing_set/

O Gajo Dos Olivais To see them INSIDE the spawn is quite a tricky mission :)

João Pedro Silva Some say it's in fact the easiest way to find Favorinus branchialis. However, I've only found them feeding on very few occasions. Coincidentally, another time was also on the spawn of Doriopsilla sp. http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpsilva1971/7551439102/

O Gajo Dos Olivais That 3D housing for w3d is out for some time now. But the quality is not good and the camera will not do macro stereo pictures... the paralax is way too distant for macro. Loreo has one "Macro Lens in a Cap (9006)" wich I have and it's quite fine. I will take it next dive and get some nudi pics shot with it. Tha good thing is that they will com out with SLR quality.. AND we can actually use a diopter from subsee or whatever one we have, like usually. The "counterpart" for me it's it builds an image in parallel eye vision (to use qith their viewer) and I see better (without viewers) in crossed-eye vision, so i will always have to edit the picture.

David Kipling Hi everyone. Something for FB experts like Rob Spray to mull over. I've been trying to find a way to meet our aim of being a "repository for photographically vouchered records." The issue, as I see it, is that a FB Wall is a very transient thing, with old posts scrolling off the bottom with time. That doesn't make it a good place to act as a repository. A photo Album would be better, with perhaps a different Album for each species. That could build into a great resource. That has the problem that we would want Albums with vouchered specimens where we agree the ID, and ideally where the picture adds to the knowledge base (eg illustrate a colour morph, is a good angle on the critter, etc). That suggests then that 'what is this?' pics should initially go on the Wall (or, in the Unidentified album) while we discuss them. However, at the end of that process how do we transfer that picture to the 'voucher' album, and more importantly how do we do so without re-posting the picture and thus losing the very valuable discussion that went on. I haven't found a way to move pictures and the thread to a a different album. Is there a way? I have tried two other options. First, to set up proper Facebook users for each species. Doesn't work, because each needs a separate email account. Too complex. Second, to set up a FB Page for each critter. Better, but the Page is associated with me, and you can't share information outside of the closed group. Also, you can't Tag a photo with a Page, which would have been another option. So does anyone have any idea? The best would be if we could move pictures between Albums and take the thread with it, but I've not found a way to do that in a closed Group. Any thoughts?

Rob Spray I wouldn't ever claim to be a Facebook expert... to my mind Facebook is great as a noticeboard but not the place for a reference or large archive. Apart from the complication FB space and mechanisms are prone to change and disrupt your work. I have long coverted the idea of a simple database which would render simply submitted data... but I'm not the chap for that. Jim Anderson could comment. That's still short of the magnificent Sea Slug forum which was clever and no doubt lots of hard work.

Jim Anderson I'm not very positive right now having watched Scotland's rugby team stumble to defeat by England. I've no idea how long Facebook stuff lasts but - what does David K suggest - or anyone else for that matter. Not about the rugby - a NE Europe nudibranch archive!!

Bernard Picton One thing I suggested to João is a Wikipedia page for each species. FB has a close relationship to Wikipedia, pulling pages off W. when you mention them. If we make a Wikipedia page for each species that would be a start. After that we should look at some way of archiving photographs. There are some stubs on Wikipedia already. But the W page will be a synthesis of the knowledge, not the raw knowledge which we're gathering here.

Bernard Picton Another thing you FB experts can look at: I think I saw that when you add a comment to an old post it goes back up to the top, so group posts are chronological by last comment?

Bernard Picton David Kipling, I don't like the idea of duplicating information, eg. from my website, to here, as that just makes copies of information that will get out of step. In saying repository I envisage that the records will get trawled and moved to somewhere like the NBN, possibly via the Conchological Society, hence the need for Lat Long positions.

Bernard Picton I'll ask Jan Light to join us, as she is Conchological Society recorder. I usually pass unusual records to her, but she'll be pleased to get photographically vouchered records. Ireland has a national biodiversity centre which will be interested in what we are doing here. http://www.biodiversityireland.ie/

João Pedro Silva I don't think FB is a good platform for a repository. It's a hub for disseminating information to a "crowd" and to gather information through discussion/polls/posts from that "crowd". I see the albums like the "Unidentified" as a temporary repository for some other more stable platforms like Wikipedia/blogs/sites.

Jan Light I'd be very happy to join this group.

David Kipling I agree with Bernard about not wanting to duplicate information that is elsewhere (ie Habitas).

David Kipling However, I still think we have a problem that needs to be solved. Facebook posts are very transient. They don't disappear, but old ones are hard to find. You have to scroll down through pages and pages, hoping to find them. There is no Search facility, no way to archive and structure the posts (eg like on SSF). My worry is that we will collect a lot of useful information by way of these discussions about species, plus a selection of photos that we have agreed upon as to ID. If we just leave these on the Wall then they will be very difficult to find in a year's time. For example, imagine in 2014 I want to go and find that post about Tritonia plebeia. First, I need to know it exists (so that requires my memory, because I can't search the Wall posts). I then have to laboriously load up page after page of the Wall, hunting for it. In other words, it will be a good place to discuss things, but the shared knowledge will soon fade away and become difficult to access, and that will be a real pity. We are also, as a group, supposed to be providing "a repository for photographically vouchered records". We can still do that, even if just creating a separate Album for each species (which is my preferred option, although we'll have to think how to manage that).

Christian Skauge OK, I just registered nudipedia.org and will attempt to set up a wiki for the first time... Just waiting for the codes, they will arrive withing two hours. I always like a practical approcah so I though "let's just try it and see what happens". I do not intend to claim any ownership to this in the normal sense, I'd like it to be a true wiki open for all. But I fear Bill Rudman well start calling us yelling aussie cusswords soon... haha :-D

Christian Skauge I still think FB is a very good platform for discussions, sharing and doing a lot of the initial stuff, while a wiki could develope into something more permanent. Thee is still the issue of loosing/keeping the discussions related to an image/observation though. I feel this is valuable too, but it is hard migrating that onto another platform. I like to play around with erb stuff anyway, and learning how to set up and develop a wiki is useful for me in any case. So this is just the catalyst and we'll see where it ends up :-)

Paula Lightfoot A FB group is a great way of providing help with species identification, so the photographer can then send their verified records to the appropriate recording scheme, e.g. Seasearch or the Conchological Society for British and Irish records. I agree with the comments above, FB can’t act as a repository for records or even a means of capturing records as it can’t accommodate geographic or taxonomic information. iSpot incorporates species ID by peer review along with taxonomic information via the NBN Species Dictionary and geographic reference via an interactive Google map, thereby generating records which are made available to the relevant recording schemes. The current drawbacks of iSpot are that there is no quick way to search for nudibranch photos within the broad ‘invertebrates’ category and there are too few marine experts using the system, meaning that FB groups like PMNHS, BMLSS and this one are a quicker and more reliable source of ID assistance for marine species (in my experience). Wikipedia pages for each species would be less transient than FB but would need to be manually updated when the taxonomy changes, also I don’t know how easy it would be to group the pages taxonomically, e.g. to see all the photos of species in a particular family. If the aim of this group is to capture records as well as providing ID assistance, I would recommend a centralised online recording system based on Indicia. This would enable verified British and Irish records to be passed to the NBN Gateway via the Conchological Society as Bernard Picton suggests, and should enable records from elsewhere to be passed to GBIF. Indicia is already used outside the UK so I think it could handle the international records. Portals to capture data could be hosted on one or more existing websites, e.g. Conchological Society, Scottish Nudibranchs, Habitas, but the data could be held centrally (e.g. DASSH or Biological Records Centre), and experts could log in to view and verify the photos. Permission to pass on the records and re-use the photos could be built into an online recording system, which is also not possible with FB.

Christian Skauge I see there are numerous options here which I am not at all aware of. A wiki might not be the solution at all - maybe there are existing online systems better suited to our need, like Paula suggests. I'll still tinker some with the wiki (I'm on sickleave and need something to do!) but like I said it's my first wiki and I'm not at all aware of the possibilities or limitations yet. Will post as soon as I have something to show.

Bernard Picton This is exactly the sort of discussion we need to have. Don't spend too much time Christian Skauge until we've checked what options already exist. My one problem with FB was the lack of a good archive and search facility. I've not looked at Google+ either? These technologies are evolving so fast now...

Christian Skauge haha my mum says dont spend too much time with Christian Skauge, period :-) But you're right, there are probably solutions out there. Don't think Google+ is much different from FB, but on the other hand I have not explored it thoroughly...

Bernard Picton FB has 845 million members according to Wikipedia, that's going to take some catching. On the other hand I seem to remember search engines before Google.

Christian Skauge I know that about 8.450 are in or likes different nudibranch related groups and pages ;-) Probably a considerable overlap, but it looks like we belong to a precieous few... 1 in 100.000 people like nudibranchs :-D

Paula Lightfoot I would like to invite John van Breda and Martin Harvey to the group, they might be able to provide some advice about options for online recording and peer-review verification. This is one of several FB groups that’s been created to help identify species from photos, it would be worth discussing whether Indicia or iSpot could fill the need with some modifications.

David Kipling Thanks for that very detailed and helpful input Paula. This is being an excellent discussion! There are a few strands to tease out here, for me. I think we're all agreed that FB is not the place for a records repository as such. It doesn't need to be; we have existing things for that (NBN etc etc). Then there is the use of FB or the like to do 'crowd-sourced' species ID of problematic groups or specimens, for which we have good examples already on FB (Porcupine and BMLSS, plus local Seasearch groups). At the moment this nudi FB group is most similar to them. And finally (and here I wave my personal interest flag as an active Seasearch amateur spotter!) the need not for a repository, but for a *resource* for nudibranch ID. A typical amateur diver in the UK on Seasearch will use Bernard's wonderful book (for which there is a thriving black market I gather!) which has a single picture per species. Or if at home they might look at Habitas, but again there are only usually a couple of pictures per species. They will flick through and match their digital picture to ones in the book or website. For this community of recorders the single most useful thing would be a resource that contained many more photos of each species, showing the whole range of colour morphs for example, and detailed images of key ID points (eg rhinophores). All properly identified by the experts who are part of this group. I think this FB group has the potential to generate that resource, because of the large number of active divers taking pics of nudis in Europe. By posting them on the Wall the individuals get their IDs confirmed, and then we can collate the images into species-individual Albums, perhaps together with some relevant annotation regarding ID ("In this species you can see the characteristic XXX of this species ..."). This is particularly true for individual animals that are on the limit of normality ... so for example the ongoing discussion about which Tritonia species is the one that Sarah Bowen saw in the Scillies. This last sort of resource is distinct from recording (which needs lat/long etc etc) but is instead focussed on creating a photographic aid to ID. Once created, there are a number of ways it could be scaled up to the wider community - such as being used to enhance a 'proper' static website like Habitas, or via use to provide pictures for inclusion in a printed Field Guide (Bernard Picton can comment!). Or even as the 'online companion' to a printed field guide, which would allow many more images to be made available to thus cover the full range of colours and shapes than would be possible in a printed book.

Christian Skauge http://www.nudipedia.org/index.php?title=Flabellina_lineata Tinkered just a little... mostly for fun, but who knows.

David Kipling Love the Okenia logo ;)

Christian Skauge Courtesy of Haeckel ;-)

Paula Lightfoot Ooh I like the idea of an 'online companion' to a printed field guide - this could be an app for Android/iPhones too! I would be interested to know more about the black market for Bernard's book, I had a copy on loan for several years and finally had to give it back last week :-(

David Kipling App for iPad would be even better... good screen for flicking through pictures. There are some good examples of such apps; Vicki Howe and I were looking at one the other day. Unlike a (for example) a printed Seasearch Field Guide such an app has the advantage of being updatable as new information arises. It would need to be usable off-line (ie not needing live interweb connectivity) for field use, but that's just a case of storing the images on the machine. That could be a stunning tool to accompany dead tree-based guides. If Christian Skauge has time on his hands he could learn Objective C and get the iOS SDK ...

Message posted on NE Atlantic Nudibranchs on 04 Feb 2012
Taxonomy
Animalia (Kingdom)
  Mollusca (Phylum)
    Gastropoda (Class)
      Heterobranchia (Subclass)
        Opisthobranchia (Infraclass)
          Nudibranchia (Order)
            Dexiarchia (Suborder)
              Dendronotida (Infraorder)
                Tritonioidea (Superfamily)
                  Tritoniidae (Family)
                    Tritonia (Genus)
                      Tritonia plebeia (Species)
Associated Species