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Cuthona genovae
(O'Donoghue, 1929)
Egidio Trainito I would like to have opinions about the nudibranch I am posting. It comes from both sides of Thyrrenian sea (Mediterranean) and my opinion is that the ID is Cuthona foliata, much commoner in NE Atlantic. I do not think it is C.genovae as shape and colour of cerata are quite different. Thanks you all.
Brendan Oonk There is a broad yellow median band running from between the rhinophores back to the heart. This is one of the characteristics of C.genovae
Bernard Picton This is certainly not Cuthona foliata. It is the species which we call Cuthona genovae, following Bouchet's paper of 1976. I think there may be other species with similar coloration in Norway though...
http://www.habitas.org.uk/marinelife/species.asp?item=W14700
Egidio Trainito Thank you Brendan and Bernard, maybe we have to go back to O'Donoghue, 1926 description from eastern Med. I know that the specimen in my post looks like the one in habitas.com, but what are then the coloured genovae we usually find? Different species or different diet?
Bernard Picton Yes, we need to look at the O'Donoghue description then! I think these ones have very different cerata, not only in colour but also shape...
Egidio Trainito I agree
Egidio Trainito I am going through Trinchese and de Quatrefages, and everything is far from clarifying, should we go molecular?
Bernard Picton Molecular will tell us if we have two species with similar markings, as long as we look at the right genes. We'd need several of each type to check how much variation there is within species. If there are two species then attaching one of them to the name genovae will probably depend on whether the original description is detailed enough. Ideally we also will need some specimens from a wide geographical area. Jussi Evertsen has photos of a possible Trinchesia foliata from Norway which looked very interesting and a bit different to T. foliata in the UK.
Antoni López-Arenas Cama An old Cuthona opisthodoubt:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alopezarenas/8556837457/
Found in Tossa de Mar (Costa Brava - Mediterranean Sea). I found it twice in the same place, two months before:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alopezarenas/6113549989/
It was between posidonia leafs at 5m depth.
It could seem Cuthona genovae, but without the caracteristic yellow line on his head.
Antoni López-Arenas Cama Do you think it could be Cuthona foliata like this specimen from Malta?: http://www.naturamalta.com/Cuthona_foliata.html
João Pedro Silva As some of you are aware, me and Gonçalo Calado are just finishing a field guide on portuguese sea slugs with a particular focus on Algarve. We're including 114 species but there are 4 for which we still don't have photos:
Cuthona genovae
Cuthona thompsoni
Cuthona willani
Onchidoris depressa
If you have some photos of these species (it can be from another place unless there are some very clear variations along the distribution range) and would like to contribute to this field guide (copyright retained by you, of course, with authorship clearly mentioned and a signed copy delivered to you), please send me a message.
Thanks!
João Pedro Silva As some of you are aware, me and Gonçalo Calado are just finishing a field guide on portuguese sea slugs with a particular focus on Algarve. We're including 114 species but there are 4 for which we still don't have photos:
Cuthona genovae
Cuthona thompsoni
Cuthona willani
Onchidoris depressa
If you have some photos of these species (it can be from another place unless there are some very clear variations along the distribution range) and would like to contribute to this field guide (copyright retained by you, of course, with authorship clearly mentioned and a signed copy delivered to you), please send me a message.
Thanks!
Patrik Good Interesting. Can't help though. Good luck and hope to be able to dive in Portugal one day and put your guide to good use.
Eric Fly Hello, I will be in Portugal next year in late Spring and was wondering if you could reccomend the best place to dive and dive shop to hunt for Nudis. I will only dive one day as we will be pressed for time, but would really like to see a few new species. Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated.
João Pedro Silva Hi Eric Fly! It depends on where you'll be staying. If you go to the Algarve, check Subnauta (www.subnauta.pt) in Portimão. The diversity is bigger there. If you're staying in the Lisbon area, check Sesimbra (lots of dive centers there) and plenty of nudis that time of the year. Further north, near Peniche/Baleal, the dives in Berlengas have also lots of nudibranchs.
João Pedro Silva As some of you are aware, me and Gonçalo Calado are just finishing a field guide on portuguese sea slugs with a particular focus on Algarve. We're including 114 species but there are 4 for which we still don't have photos:
Cuthona genovae
Cuthona thompsoni
Cuthona willani
Onchidoris depressa
If you have some photos of these species (it can be from another place unless there are some very clear variations along the distribution range) and would like to contribute to this field guide (copyright retained by you, of course, with authorship clearly mentioned and a signed copy delivered to you), please send me a message.
Thanks!
Gary Cobb Is it possible to say why you are using Cuthona??
Gary Cobb I am building an iPhone App for the Eastern Atlantic -Nudibranch ID and the species list contains 852 species. The area covered is from the Norway down to Cape Town. Good luck Joao!
João Pedro Silva Because of this, Gary: http://www.seaslugforum.net/showall/cuthonadisc
João Pedro Silva Also, the latest Iberian checklist also uses Cuthona:
http://www.inoxnet.com/portisub/files/CatalogoIbericoOpistobranquios2006.pdf
João Pedro Silva I've yet to find the reference for the general use of Trinchesia instead of Cuthona (except for Cuthona nana).
Gary Cobb Trinchesia instead of Cuthona
We feel that Michael Miller’s paper, in the Journal of Natural History 2004 Vol. 38 Issue 9, being the most recent work in this area coupled with his knowledge and experience with this group gives the decision to change most Cuthona to Trinchesia all the authority for acceptance that is needed.
We don’t wish to refute every point made in the discussion listed above but suffice to say it is fair to accept the work until somebody puts in the time and effort to come forward with the information and the argument to dispute it. We think it should be accepted until fairly tested.
We agree that science makes little incremental steps in progress and often that is just “nibbling away†at the matter. The whole nomenclature process is a fluid thing. Sure, it may change again later; it might flip flop several times but based on our current knowledge it makes sense to group species upon the currently researched and understood features. We fail to see the confusion.
Some workers are by their nature “clumpers†grouping species together and others are “splitters†breaking them up into many different taxons. We don’t think Miller is guilty of being a “splitterâ€.
João Pedro Silva Still, I'd like to know if that particular study used material from the above species (and others of the same genus from the Atlantic). At least the abstract only mentions NZ species.
WoRMS doesn't include the species I mentioned in the Trinchesia genus (http://www.marinespecies.org/aphia.php?p=taxdetails&id=391297) but in the Cuthona genus (http://www.marinespecies.org/aphia.php?p=taxdetails&id=138543).
Gary Cobb See new thread.
João Pedro Silva Orietta Rivolta, you have some nice shots of Onchidoris depressa on Nudipixel. Please let me know if you'd like to help us.
http://www.nudipixel.net/photo/00033394/
Orietta Rivolta Ok João you can use my photos :-)))))
Gary Cobb Hey Joao! As you know I am building an iPhone App for the Eastern Atlantic and Mediterranean Sea called Nudibranch ID with so far 850 species. I came across a photo of Calma gobioophaga and would like to ask you if I may have permission to use your photos in this new App. I say photos meaning if I come across any other of your photos may I have permission. Your photos will have your name on each one and listed in the Contributing Photographers thank you view. If you have an iPhone I will send you a promo code for a free App. Thank you.
João Pedro Silva As some of you are aware, me and Gonçalo Calado are just finishing a field guide on portuguese sea slugs with a particular focus on Algarve. We're including 114 species but there are 4 for which we still don't have photos:
Cuthona genovae
Cuthona thompsoni
Cuthona willani
Onchidoris depressa
If you have some photos of these species (it can be from another place unless there are some very clear variations along the distribution range) and would like to contribute to this field guide (copyright retained by you, of course, with authorship clearly mentioned and a signed copy delivered to you), please send me a message.
Thanks!
Vishal Bhave ID Please
Tentative ID Cuthona sp.??
Size: 2-4 mm
Depth- 2.5 feet
Ratnagiri, Maharashtra
Bernard Picton The markings remind me of Cuthona genovae, so you could call it cf. genovae in the absence of anything else....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cf.
Vishal Bhave with Cuthona genovae (http://www.marbef.org/modules.php?name=Photogallery&album=152&pic=957) there are one more species is in a circle - Cuthona foliata (http://species-identification.org/species.php?species_group=mollusca&id=640) ; i have now enough specimens (will preserved). In this species the base of rhinophores are orangish, and reflective fine white spots were absent (i will take more closerlook under microscope). Can anybody tell me the important features to look while dissecting these 4 mm animals ??
Bernard Picton Marta Pola, does Terry dissect these tiny ones? Malcolm Edmunds reconstructs them from serial sections, so Vishal I think that is what you need to do. However if you look at the Trinchesia/Cuthona in Edmunds Tanzanian paper you will see that the reproductive systems are really all the same. Given that you cannot use the reproductive system to identify the animals in the field I think it is not necessary to describe the reproductive system when there are good colour characters which can be used for identification.
Marta Pola Hi Bernard. Yes, I think he does. I have a species of Cuhona from deep waters and It is true that the reproductive system are all the same...I don´t know which species is..
Lucas CerCur The same tale.....ha, ha, ha.
Lucas CerCur Always....
Vishal Bhave I just now saw mating of this species; the penis has stylet at the tip is slightly curved (Unfortunately i didn't get image of that) but i have image of mating slugs (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qilqsKn4ZP0/UQPTP3aOfaI/AAAAAAAAP2I/wUMFWoIpWPQ/s640/Untitled.jpg)
