Trapania tartanella

Manuel Martínez Chacón Trapania tartanella

João Pedro Silva Nestas vamos continuar sempre com a dúvida entre T. tartanella e T. hispalensis. Há um comentário do Lucas Cervera no Sea Slug Forum em que indica uma caracteristica externa identificativa: " In my experience, externally, in T. tartanella all the yellow areas show a superficial orange pigmentation at the tips, which is lacking in T. hispalensis. This is the only external difference that I have seen." (http://www.seaslugforum.net/find/20698) Tendo em conta o que hoje se sabe sobre a variação intraespecífica da morfologia dos dentes radulares (e outras características), um estudo molecular esclarecerá de uma vez por todas.

João Pedro Silva Nalguns indivíduos, esta pigmentação superficial laranja é mais evidente: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpsilva1971/6109278087/

João Pedro Silva Mas também já vi o mesmo tipo de variação cromática (pigmentação superficial laranja) noutras espécies não relacionadas: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpsilva1971/9412444628/

Manuel Martínez Chacón Entonces... ¿podría ser una T. hispalensis el ejemplar que muestro?

João Pedro Silva Sim, podia.... mas, também pode ser que sejam a mesma espécie :)

Manuel Martínez Chacón Trapania tartanella from Tarifa, Spain.

Lucas CerCur O... Trapania hispalensis....

Manuel Martínez Chacón ¿Ambas especies son sinónimos?

Lucas CerCur No, son 2 especies validad que se pueden encontrar simultáneamente. Habria que ver como es la rádula para decidir si es una u otra.

Richard Yorke More Trapanina macculata from the Dorset coast.

Charlotte Bolton Great pics as ever Richard - where/when were these?

Richard Yorke Stennis Ledges on the Dysidea (10/7/10), and North Whitehouse Grounds (8/9/12)

Charlotte Bolton Thanks for the super-quick response! The 2012 sighting isn't in Marine Recorder but I am about to rectify that...

Lucas CerCur The correct spelling is Trapania maculata.

Richard Yorke Sorry, just copied and pasted it from the earlier post, just checked my keywords and it is correct there :-)

Kirstie Harris I wonder how many (if any) of these I've ignored, thinking they're Polycera quadrilineata......I must take the time to look at them properly in future!

Sarah Bowen Yes, definitely - we did the same with a Polycera-like specimen a few years back but something just didn't look right. Then we got Bernard to have a look at it and it turned out to be Trapania tartanella!

João Pedro Silva About intermediate forms of Atlantic Trapania spp., here's an unusually pale Trapania tartanella shot last AUgust in Sesimbra. At first I thought T. pallida (and that would be great because there were only half a dozen individuals observed in Portugal) but then I noticed the yellow (and a bit of orange) pigment.

João Pedro Silva A very pale Trapania tartanella, so pale I thought it was T. pallida when I shot it.

João Pedro Silva A couple of Trapania tartanella feeding on Entoprocta. I only very rarely can see them in the photos but these are clearly visible due to their abundance and the contrasting colour of the sponge.

João Pedro Silva Trapania tartanella "típica", com a pigmentação laranja nas pontas das zonas pigmentadas a amarelo.

João Pedro Silva Trapania tartanella com pigmentação amarela muito reduzida Local: Sesimbra, Portugal Spot: Paredes do Cabo Profundidade: 13m Data: 03-08-2012

João Pedro Silva Trapania tartanella Local: Sesimbra, Portugal Spot: Jardim das Gorgónias Profundidade: ~13m Data: 23-05-2011

João Pedro Silva Better than finding Trapania tartanella is to actually see their food, the tiny Entoprocta.

João Pedro Silva The most common Goniodorididae found in Portugal, Trapania tartanella is very difficult to distinguish from T. hispalensis without analysis of the radula. At least for Portugal, the only hint is the slightly darker orange tips of pigmented areas (rhinophores, branchial plume, etc).

João Pedro Silva Interesting colours on this P. quadrilineata shot today near Cape Espichel, Portugal. Gills and rhinophores have distinctive orange tips.

David Kipling Looks like it's been hanging around with one of those Trapania tartanellas!

Carlos Fernández-Cid Ramos Trapania maculata. Galicia, Spain http://www.flickr.com/photos/78557484@N02/8461171164/in/set-72157632261258262

Egidio Trainito Why not Trapania hispalensis? It looks like an intermediate form.

Carlos Fernández-Cid Ramos I think is T.maculata. The other found here is

João Pedro Silva T. hispalensis, as T. tartanella, hasn't pigmented areas ahead of the gills and rhinophores. I support T. maculata.

Carlos Fernández-Cid Ramos http://www.flickr.com/photos/78557484@N02/8276832863/in/set-72157632261258262

João Pedro Silva This is a more typical T. tartanella, with the pigmented areas more orange near the tips: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpsilva1971/6109278087/ Apparently this should be the only external different between T. tartanella and T. hispalensis.

João Pedro Silva On the differences between T. tartanella and T. hispalensis: http://www.seaslugforum.net/find/20698

Egidio Trainito Mediterranean T.maculata are usually more pigmented

João Pedro Silva Yes, I know, but not in the Atlantic. Nevertheless, it has only been seen once here in Portugal: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpsilva1971/5701113310/

Carlos Fernández-Cid Ramos Trapania tartanella is the most frecuent here. I have seen once a T. palida (with very bad photos), and a T. maculata for the first time yesterday.

Lucas CerCur Dear colleagues to be sure of a right identification of both species, you need to check the radula. It is true that details on the orange/yellow pigmentation can infer what species is, but the radula is definitive. I will upload the original description of T. hispalensis.

Lucas CerCur I have just uploaded.

Jon Chamberlain For those that used to use Bill Rudman's Sea Slug Forum you may have noticed that most of the pages are now inaccessible (probably to minimise hosting costs). The good news is you can view a cached version of the site here: http://web.archive.org/web/20130420140630/http://seaslugforum.net/ There are lots of great sites and Facebook groups about nudibranchs but this was one of the first and quite special as Bill took so much care in curating the information. Glad it's not lost, and here's hoping it makes a return.

Deb Aston Thank you for this link

David Kipling Sadly much of it hasn't been archived (based on non-exhaustive hunt for stuff I know I've posted on SSF). So for example the whole page and posts on Trapania tartanella is missing, and even for those pages where I can see text many of the photos are missing, for example http://web.archive.org/web/20100512202350/http://www.seaslugforum.net/showall/actetorn Argh!!

Jon Chamberlain thats annoying! there are multiple snapshots so ill have a look for a more complete version. hopefully bill has a copy somewhere in case funding can be found to resurrect the site

Bernard Picton Jon, I do have an archived copy from after it was frozen.

João Pedro Silva The info is backed up, so it should be easy to serve the static content. I would be great to convince the Australian Museum to release the domain so the community can take care of it.

David Kipling Who's going to broach that with them?

João Pedro Silva In Portuguese we have this expression "assobiar para o lado" (literally, "whistling to the side"). I think you get the picture :) I think it may be a good idea to have someone local contact the museum.

João Pedro Silva Geitodoris planata Local: Arrábida, Portugal Spot: Alpertuche Profundidade: 4m Data: 26-12-2011

María Eugenia Suárez Tienes alguna foto de este nudi por su parte inferior? Hace tiempo vi una parecida dada la vuelta por un aletazo y me gustaría saber si es la misma. Gracias.

João Pedro Silva Tenho algumas fotos de pormenor mas não as tenho online. São laranja/amarelado com pequenos pontos castanho-escuro. Mas... Discodoris stellifera também tem os mesmos pontos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpsilva1971/6824861188/

João Pedro Silva As duas espécies (D. stellifera e G. planata) são tão semelhantes que apenas a observação microscópica da rádula as permite distinguir (como entre Trapania hispalensis e Trapania tartanella). Mas os recentes estudos genéticos vieram confirmar que determinados aspectos morfológicos (como a rádula ou as mandíbulas) podem variar dentro de uma mesma espécie. E pode ser que, quando se fizer a revisão da família Discodorididae com recurso ao ADN, se descubra que afinal se trata da mesma espécie.