Doto coronata

Paula Lightfoot Are these Doto coronata or will I just go with Doto sp? (and I see the Habitas site says that D coronata is a recording aggregate anyway!)

Kate Lock Yes you are right it is an aggregate ....an often can only differentiate if you find it on particular hydroids as the different ones are very food specific... I would go with D.coronata agg. I understand from Bernard Picton that work is being done on this 'group'...

Carissa Shipman Yeah, I am working on them...Bernard's field guide is extremely helpful in identifying them. I would look at his photos and the description and compare them to your photos.

Peter H van Bragt It seems most likely to be Doto coronata. The pigmentation on the inner side of the base of the cerata and on the tubercles (and their shape) is quite distinct....

Paula Lightfoot Thank you! I will record as D coronata agg. I don't have a copy of Bernard's field guide unfortunately although I keep looking out for one. As you can see from the photos, these were not giving away any clues about their favourite hydroid food!

Brendan Oonk Take a look at this Paula http://www.seaslug.org.uk/nudibranchs/

Rob Maller A Doto sp. I "reclaimed" from the murky water of the Easter Scheldt last Sunday. I've never seen a Doto coronata coloured like this one before though....

René Weterings And I haven't seen them AT ALL!!! ;-)

Rob Maller You'll find them.... don't worry.

Klas Malmberg Aquatilis I like dotos but I think they are hard to identify. All of the can´t be Doto coronata... this one has very dark red pigment on the body.

Helgi Winther Olsen When you get into detail with these small bastards they really shine, dont they! Just so much beauty hidden there. But it really demands magnification to see it, as they rarely are more than a few mm in length. Well done Klas Malmberg.

Klas Malmberg Aquatilis And we got a light version of the Doto coronata cluster...

Paula Lightfoot Are these Doto coronata or will I just go with Doto sp? (and I see the Habitas site says that D coronata is a recording aggregate anyway!)

Kate Lock Yes you are right it is an aggregate ....an often can only differentiate if you find it on particular hydroids as the different ones are very food specific... I would go with D.coronata agg. I understand from Bernard Picton that work is being done on this 'group'...

Carissa Shipman Yeah, I am working on them...Bernard's field guide is extremely helpful in identifying them. I would look at his photos and the description and compare them to your photos.

Peter H van Bragt It seems most likely to be Doto coronata. The pigmentation on the inner side of the base of the cerata and on the tubercles (and their shape) is quite distinct....

Paula Lightfoot Thank you! I will record as D coronata agg. I don't have a copy of Bernard's field guide unfortunately although I keep looking out for one. As you can see from the photos, these were not giving away any clues about their favourite hydroid food!

Brendan Oonk Take a look at this Paula http://www.seaslug.org.uk/nudibranchs/

Erling Svensen I agree, Klas. I also feel there must be more than one of these species. But - look at my picture - the colours are very different. I do think that these are the same, or?

Klas Malmberg Aquatilis I really don´t know, the more I try to get in to this the more confused I get. I like Pictons descriptions in his book but I cant really find out about the cluster of Doto coronata, they can be really different sometimes, both with pigment on the inside of the cerata, the size of the pigmentdots, the shape of the sheats and rhinofores... for me it is a mess!

Erling Svensen Agree. When I visit Bernard in Ireland last time he had a friend from Spain that was working only with Dotos. Maybe Bernard can help to find him for identification help.

Helgi Winther Olsen I'm following your discussion with great interest. Very similar observations for me in the Faroe Islands.

Christian Skauge Same here from Gulen. I would think these two are not the same species...

Claire Goodwin If anyone wants to try and track him down I think Erling is referring to Guillermo Díaz-Agras (Wily). It was 2006 he was over with us so I don't think I have his current email. You seem to be able to find everyone on facebook though!

João Pedro Silva Me and Gonçalo Calado were with Willy last week at A Graña. Not sure if he's on Facebook but I can send him an email.

João Pedro Silva Willy's contacts are here at the Marine Biological Station of A Graña's webpage: http://www.usc.es/en/servizos/ebmg/

Bernard Picton Doto coronata from Skomer Island, Wales. These were feeding on a large bushy Obelia, probably Obelia dichotoma. I think these might be the same as yours Rachel Shucksmith? http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152797849735154&set=o.166655096779112&type=1&theater

Bernard Picton I should have put a date on: 15:6:2010.

Tine Kinn Kvamme Doto coronata. Drøbak, Norway. 10 mm, at 25 meters dept.

João Pedro Silva The question is "which" Doto coronata.

Tine Kinn Kvamme If you know, please feel free to tell :)

João Pedro Silva They're quite tricky and ID usually requires also identifying the food source.

Tine Kinn Kvamme I agree :)

Brendan Oonk My gues would be Doto dunnei, there are multiple spots on the surface of the cerata in addition to the terminal spots on the tubercles

Erling Svensen Out diving today. A lots, lots of Doto's, Gods know what kind of Doto? May be Doto coronata? Also quite many E. exiguus but they are very small now. In 2-3 weeks they become bigger (small is less than 4 millimeter - big is 5 - 7 millimeter).

Christian Skauge Beautiiiful! Woulf guess D. coronata but as you know they're almost impossible... :-)

Bernard Picton These are the Doto coronata which eat Obelia geniculata I think, Erling. We need to test, probably by sequencing a bit of DNA, to see if they are the same as the one you had the other day, which was eating Obelia dichotoma (probably). There are more or less identical, but bigger, animals eating Sertularia argentea, slightly darker ones eating Abietinaria abietina, and ones which look more or less the same eating several other hydroids. Carissa Shipman will like to see these.

Carissa Shipman It will be great to find out how genetically divergent these cryptic species are from one another. Still working on photographing them and then Terry will dissect them to look at their reproductive systems. Then I will get DNA! So much to do, but I must be systematic about it.

Terry Griffiths Hi all i think this is Doto tuberculata would like your input on this one as it's doing my head in.

Carissa Shipman I say yes to D. tuberculata. This photo matches the description in Bernard's field guide. Main giveaways to its identification are the black tubercles running along the back of this animal and the black terminal spots on the tubercles of the cerata. The anterior margin of the rhinophorial sheath also has a distinctive shape and is wider than its posterior side.

Brendan Oonk Doto tuberculata is not supposed to have a spot on the apical tubercle, which is present here.

Carissa Shipman in the original description of D. tuberculata, it says the apical tubercle rarely has a spot. What do you think Bernard Picton?

Bernard Picton I don't think this is Doto tuberculata. In that species there are raised tubercles on the body in a sparse line across, between the cerata. Often only four or less of these in a line, with black spots in the tip. My photo shows no black spot in the terminal tubercle of each ceras, as Brendan says. http://www.habitas.org.uk/marinelife/photo.asp?item=dottub

Terry Griffiths Thank Bernard any Id for it ?

Bernard Picton On the other hand it doesn't match any named species exactly, though we do find Doto coronata type species with black markings apparently mixed with ones with red markings in some populations.

Terry Griffiths This is why it was doing my head in.

Bernard Picton Individual Doto not on their food are often not identifiable in my opinion. We might get there eventually, but by studying the variation in groups of animals which are feeding and mating together. So take plenty of photographs when you find them!!

Egidio Trainito Found in western Mediterranean (Sardinia), does anybody suggest an ID? Doesn't match with any of the mediterranean species. Too small (3 mm) to be photographed in his environment (a buoy just under the surface, with many others) and therefore his diet.

Bernard Picton Lovely photo, Egidio! Have you checked all of the Trinchese species, and do you know all of them in the field? The extra large tubercles at the tips of the cerata in this one are quite a distinctive feature.

Egidio Trainito Yes, Bernard, not all in the field, but could not find a match. I think I have found Doto paulinae, never found Doto rosea (to which have been synonimized aurea and cinerea) and D.cuspidata (to which have been synonimized costae, corneliae and splendida). The one in the photo doesn't look like rosea nor cuspidata. I have some five or six species that look new!! but nobody to study them!! What about the photos I've sent you some time ago?

Lucas CerCur Doto spp: a very big mess.

Bernard Picton I would ignore ALL those synonymies Egidio and go back to look at the original descriptions. Doto cuspidata is a northern Atlantic species and almost certainly does not occur in the Mediterranean at all. I am not familiar with the Mediterranean species (by seeing them alive under a microscope) so would not hazard a guess at the species names. There is a big project, like Lemche did for Doto in the NE Atlantic, which needs to be done for the Mediterranean. Do keep photographing them and make sure you get a sample of the hydroid they are on too. Carissa has got some good DNA results now for the Lemche species so we can make fast progress with the right approach.

Egidio Trainito Thank you Bernard Picton I will go on taking pictures and preserving samples, if anybody is willing to go deeper they are at disposal. I am trying to go back to original descriptions (I have them) but it is not simple and not so affordable.

Bernard Picton Taxonomy is a slow science, I'm afraid. Lemche split Doto coronata in his 1976 paper and we are still investigating those species in the NE Atlantic. Slowly we edge towards a better understanding, but this is why it is hard to get science funding for taxonomic projects, it takes many years to gather the observations and specimens. DNA is only part of the solution, as when it reveals unexpected relationships or new species we then need to go back into the field to build up a picture of each of the species, how to recognise it, how it varies, where it is found and what it feeds on.

Ingrid Thea Ølberg So Bernard... What you are saying is that we need MORE fun gatherings where we can nerd about nudies.. not just at Gulen, but elsewere also??

Carissa Shipman This species looks different than even the ones I have photos of from Sardinia Italy that are new species!

Carissa Shipman Actually I lied, We have some of this species at the Academy and I have some photos!

Carissa Shipman Anyone want to pay me to study the Dotidae for the rest of my life? jk

Lucas CerCur Do you promise us to finish and solve all about Doto? jk

João Pedro Silva "The ultimate question about Life, the Universe... and Doto" :)

Ian Smith 42.0 (42 dot 0)

Tine Kinn Kvamme Doto coronata. Drøbak, Norway. 10 mm, at 25 meters dept.

João Pedro Silva The question is "which" Doto coronata.

Tine Kinn Kvamme If you know, please feel free to tell :)

João Pedro Silva They're quite tricky and ID usually requires also identifying the food source.

Tine Kinn Kvamme I agree :)

Brendan Oonk My gues would be Doto dunnei, there are multiple spots on the surface of the cerata in addition to the terminal spots on the tubercles

Erling Svensen A new dodo. I both hate and love the dodots. They are so beautiful nudies, but still so hard to identify. Anyone? Below the doto there are two juvenile nudies. The doto is less then 1 cm long, so the juveniles is not much bigger than 1 millimeter.

João Pedro Silva The smaller one on the right looks like Polycera quadrilineata. Regarding the Doto... I share your feelings :) PS: you've typed "Dodot". There's also a hate and love feeling regarding diapers :)

Erling Svensen Dotos.... ;-). I say to myself: Stop take pictures of these nudies, but there is something inside that not share that feeling.

Tony Gilbert I think this is close to D. coronata or D. eireana. It depends on how much pigment is down the body, and its colouration. Also, I think it narrows id down if the food source is photographed and confirmed, as many are exclusive feeders. This is something I need to think of well :-)

Christian Skauge I know the feeling - and agree with you both. HATE them! But always have to photograph them anyways...

Erik de Boer Could this be a Doto Coronata, i think it is. Nice Picture !

Tony Gilbert Yep, me too... always on the look out partic. for Dotos.

René Weterings Wauw, very cool picture!

John de Jong Here the spawn is visible, Bernard Picton. D. coronata?

Bernard Picton The point is that what we call Doto coronata may actually be a group of species and not a single species. There are small differences between the animals on different hydroids and these may indicate that there are several undescribed species. In 1976 Henning Lemche decided that these differences were species level, and split Doto coronata into several species, including Doto dunnei, Doto maculata, Doto eireana and Doto koenneckeri. I was able to go out and observe the differences he had found by targeting the hydroids he'd associated with these animals.

Erling Svensen Out diving today. A lots, lots of Doto's, Gods know what kind of Doto? May be Doto coronata? Also quite many E. exiguus but they are very small now. In 2-3 weeks they become bigger (small is less than 4 millimeter - big is 5 - 7 millimeter).

Christian Skauge Beautiiiful! Woulf guess D. coronata but as you know they're almost impossible... :-)

Bernard Picton These are the Doto coronata which eat Obelia geniculata I think, Erling. We need to test, probably by sequencing a bit of DNA, to see if they are the same as the one you had the other day, which was eating Obelia dichotoma (probably). There are more or less identical, but bigger, animals eating Sertularia argentea, slightly darker ones eating Abietinaria abietina, and ones which look more or less the same eating several other hydroids. Carissa Shipman will like to see these.

Carissa Shipman It will be great to find out how genetically divergent these cryptic species are from one another. Still working on photographing them and then Terry will dissect them to look at their reproductive systems. Then I will get DNA! So much to do, but I must be systematic about it.

Erling Svensen The hydroid (best I could find). I will dive tomorrow and take some new ones. The tubercles are deep red in colour.

Bernard Picton Looks like an Obelia to me, perhaps Obelia dichotoma (if that's a single species as we currently use the name).

Erling Svensen If its Obelia, does it helps with the Doto?

Bernard Picton No-one really knows what the original Doto coronata is. The drawing in Gmelin, 1791, shows an animal on a Eudendrium or Obelia-like hydroid and it was cast up on the dutch coast. Carissa Shipman is working on Doto now, but they have to be one of the most difficult genera to sort out the species. DNA will help, but we still need to be able to see diffeerences between them; photographs, spawn and food will help sort that out I think. Doto coronata is the type species of the Genus Doto, so knowing which animal should bear this name is particularly important, especially if the genus needs to be split at some time in the future. I have one similar to this on the same hydroid, but will need to wait until I'm back at work next week to get the pictures. There are Doto on Obelia geniculata on kelp too, with bright pink spots. They might not be the same species.

Sarah Bowen Ah yes, I've got a Doto with bright pink spots from a dive up the Cleddau in Pembrokeshire. I'll dig it out later and post it, as I can't remember what it was found on (which won't necessarily be its food source if it's just out for a walk!)

Carissa Shipman Why do my comments keep disappearing on here?

Bernard Picton Carissa, there are three threads here on this specimen, photo, close-up and food. Also the thread with the most recent comment comes back up to the top so things don't stay in order. And the comments fold up so that only the most recent ones are showing until you click "View all x comments...". I see a comment from you on the full animal comments section, did you lose others?

Bernard Picton Also the search seems to work well - in Search this group (top RHS) enter Doto and hit return...

Christian Skauge I told you so :-) It works beautifully, and you can even combine search terms: Try 'doto erling' to see what he's been writing, and leave the others out ;-)

Kerry Lewis Utterly rubbish pics of a Doto coronata of some sort...? Richie, you have better shots of this one.

Betty Nel Blu Doto coronata. Costa Paradiso, Sardegna.

Brendan Oonk Are you sure this is D.coronata? There seems to be no red on the inside of the ceras. The tubercles look somewhat elongated. And the number of rows of tubercles is low...

Carissa Shipman I agree. The rhinophorial sheaths are shaped differently than the true D. coronata. I am finally designating a neotype for D. coronata and it looks quite different than this.

Peter H van Bragt For sure not D. coronata. @Brendan, in juvenile specimen the number of cerata can be few. And in less pigmented specimen (often relatively small ones) the red pigment on the inside of the cerata may be absent. The excess of pigment next to the tubercles in this specimen is very much indicative for not being D. coronata

Egidio Trainito Is this Doto coronata?

Peter H van Bragt I don't think so. Seems to be the same species as the one above.

Egidio Trainito This is what we call Doto coronata in Mediterranean Sea, maybe we need a pit stop!! or better ordinary and extraordinary service?!

Peter H van Bragt Maybe you should collect a few specimen and send them to Carissa Shipman

Egidio Trainito I am trying to ship Carissa Shipman here, it's better!!

Peter H van Bragt Be sure that she also brings her primers :-)

Carissa Shipman Yes, it would be a wonderful experience to help Egidio Trainito with his research.

Bjørnar Nygård Is this a Doto coronata ? I haven't seen one with color on the rhinophore sheaths before, and this much color pigmentation on the body. The size of this one is about 1cm, and it has 7 pairs of cerata on the back.

Christian Skauge Not D.coronata I think. Weird one! D. koenneckeri?

João Pedro Silva Which hydroid was it on?

Bjørnar Nygård It might have been on the hydroid Kirchenpaueria pinnata, but I'm not sure. I've posted a new picture of it on the hydroid.

Brendan Oonk D.koenneckeri has got comma-shaped dark spots on the cerata. This one hasn't. D.coronata has got red pigment on the base of the inside of the cerata, wich are visible here. So eventhough the I think the shape of the cerata is too elongated, my gues would be D.coronata

Bernard Picton This is very distinctive, with unusually elongated ceratal tubercles and their colouring. It is different to any of the Doto coronata group that I've seen before. I'd say probably a new species....

Christian Skauge That's what we like to hear :-D

Bjørnar Nygård Seems that I have to go back to the spot I found the nudi at, and see if I can find some more. I've sent this specimen to Jussi Evertsen.

Jussi Evertsen Hi Bjørnar, I am in the UK for a while so it may take some time before I can examine your specimen closer

Carissa Shipman wow!! I am intrigued, where was it collected?

Carissa Shipman so cool! I am in love! So much diversity!

Carissa Shipman Hey, can I use this photo for an upcoming conference? I want to use it to highlight the diversity of Dotos, which look similar to D. coronata. I am just astounded at how many there are!

Bjørnar Nygård Carissa Shipman this Doto was found during a dive just west of Bergen, Norway.

Carissa Shipman Thanks for the info. I will use it!

Brendan Oonk Bjørnar, Jussi Any news on this one yet?

Carissa Shipman Anyone a part of this group speak Dutch? I need an original description of Doto coronata from 1769 translated for my graduate research. I could compensate the individual who could translate the 8 pages. Send me a message if you think you could help me with this!

Peter H van Bragt Hi Cariussa, I assume you mean Baster's publication? I'm not sure if their is much of a description but the drawings are great. Do you already have the precise pages availble that you want to be translated? Cheers Peter H van Bragt

Carissa Shipman Bommer's publication. The drawings are great! Yes, I have the pages as a url link from 394-402. Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Peter H van Bragt Do send me the link and I wil have a look at whta paragtraphs refer to D. coronata. Do you have a deadline?

Carissa Shipman No deadline but the sooner, the better. http://archive.org/stream/nieuweverhandeli01zeeu#page/394/mode/1up. 8 pages in length from 394-402 according to our librarian.

Peter H van Bragt Hello Carissa, I've downloaded the pages. In between a lot of other work I will try to do this within a few weeks hopefully. Btw it's 9 pages ;-)

René Weterings "Doto coronata" (and "Caprella linearis") Found at divesite "Zeelandbrug" in the Eastern Scheldt, The Netherlands on the 31st of july 2012.

Betty Nel Blu Doto coronata. Costa Paradiso, Sardegna.

Betty Nel Blu Doto sp. Costa Paradiso, Sardegna.

Bernard Picton I’d call it one of the Doto coronata group. What was the hydroid and what was that growing on, Betty?

Ian Smith Looks very like illustration and description of Doto acuta in Schmekel & Portmann "Opisthobranchia des Mittelmeeres". In particular black ring on rhinophores with diffuse black lower down, and black spots on cerata. Body colour yellowish.

Bernard Picton Nice Ian, I agree those rhinophores are very distinctive. Do you have the colour plates in your copy of S & P? Mine was a reprint and looks like a B&W photocopy with a nice binding. I was devastated, but I’d bought it for the Museum as we didn’t get a copy when it came out.

Ian Smith Yes Bernard I have colour plates. Sorry that my scanner is kaput or I'd put it up as I can't find any acuta images on the web. Shame S&P is so expensive, I was lucky - got it on web for about £70 instead of usual £300.

Egidio Trainito We in the Med call il Doto acuta

Betty Nel Blu Doto coronata. Costa Paradiso, Sardegna.

Brendan Oonk Are you sure this is D.coronata? There seems to be no red on the inside of the ceras. The tubercles look somewhat elongated. And the number of rows of tubercles is low...

Carissa Shipman I agree. The rhinophorial sheaths are shaped differently than the true D. coronata. I am finally designating a neotype for D. coronata and it looks quite different than this.

Peter H van Bragt For sure not D. coronata. @Brendan, in juvenile specimen the number of cerata can be few. And in less pigmented specimen (often relatively small ones) the red pigment on the inside of the cerata may be absent. The excess of pigment next to the tubercles in this specimen is very much indicative for not being D. coronata

Egidio Trainito Is this Doto coronata?

Peter H van Bragt I don't think so. Seems to be the same species as the one above.

Egidio Trainito This is what we call Doto coronata in Mediterranean Sea, maybe we need a pit stop!! or better ordinary and extraordinary service?!

Peter H van Bragt Maybe you should collect a few specimen and send them to Carissa Shipman

Egidio Trainito I am trying to ship Carissa Shipman here, it's better!!

Peter H van Bragt Be sure that she also brings her primers :-)

Carissa Shipman Yes, it would be a wonderful experience to help Egidio Trainito with his research.

Rachel Shucksmith Bernard Picton, i have cropped in on the original and it has three white sacks on it. Does that mean it has several parasites or the same one is moving about?

Brendan Oonk I think it's the eggsack from a parasite like Splanchnotrophus

Brendan Oonk ".....eggsacks from a single parasite..."

Carissa Shipman Is that the entire egg mass? Typically the egg masses are banana shaped and there are usually two side by side.

Carissa Shipman Perhaps this photo was taken as the eggs were being laid, since the shape in this photo does not look like a typical splanch egg mass.

Brendan Oonk Looks like the splanch is futher back on the nudi. With one egg just reaching the end of the ceras and the other coming round the other side of the ceras

Nils Aukan I beleive it is not egs, possibly some kind of parasite. Doto coronata with similar white sacks, and ghost-shrimp.

Marco Faasse This photo nicely shows the banana-shaped egg-sacs Carissa mentioned. The parasite is a copepod living inside the nudi, only the egg-sacs sticking out. When you zoom in maximally you can see the eggs in the sacs if the photo is sufficiently detailed.

Carissa Shipman I feel for the Doto! It must suck having a giant parasite living in you eating your gonads!

Bernard Picton Parasitised individuals seem to live on after the main population have died, presumably because they are unable to spawn. A strange trade-off!

Rachel Shucksmith not sure what that says about the affects of parenthood Bernard....

David Kipling Investing limited resources in either reproduction or somatic maintenance - k/r selected life history traits and also why we age ...

Carissa Shipman Super cool that they live longer!

David Kipling It probably just feels it, with a parasite eating your gonads from inside ;(

Bjørnar Nygård Is this a Doto coronata ? I haven't seen one with color on the rhinophore sheaths before, and this much color pigmentation on the body. The size of this one is about 1cm, and it has 7 pairs of cerata on the back.

Christian Skauge Not D.coronata I think. Weird one! D. koenneckeri?

João Pedro Silva Which hydroid was it on?

Bjørnar Nygård It might have been on the hydroid Kirchenpaueria pinnata, but I'm not sure. I've posted a new picture of it on the hydroid.

Brendan Oonk D.koenneckeri has got comma-shaped dark spots on the cerata. This one hasn't. D.coronata has got red pigment on the base of the inside of the cerata, wich are visible here. So eventhough the I think the shape of the cerata is too elongated, my gues would be D.coronata

Bernard Picton This is very distinctive, with unusually elongated ceratal tubercles and their colouring. It is different to any of the Doto coronata group that I've seen before. I'd say probably a new species....

Christian Skauge That's what we like to hear :-D

Bjørnar Nygård Seems that I have to go back to the spot I found the nudi at, and see if I can find some more. I've sent this specimen to Jussi Evertsen.

Jussi Evertsen Hi Bjørnar, I am in the UK for a while so it may take some time before I can examine your specimen closer

Carissa Shipman wow!! I am intrigued, where was it collected?

Carissa Shipman so cool! I am in love! So much diversity!

Carissa Shipman Hey, can I use this photo for an upcoming conference? I want to use it to highlight the diversity of Dotos, which look similar to D. coronata. I am just astounded at how many there are!

Bjørnar Nygård Carissa Shipman this Doto was found during a dive just west of Bergen, Norway.

Carissa Shipman Thanks for the info. I will use it!

Brendan Oonk Bjørnar, Jussi Any news on this one yet?

Brendan Oonk I'm looking for a reference to the maximum size of Doto sarsiae. Can anyone help me?

Carissa Shipman Picton's paper from 1992. Genetic divergence and cryptic speciation in two morphs of the common subtidal nudibranch Doto coronata(Opisthobranchia: Dendronotacea: Dotoidae) from the … The size of the animal should be in there.

Carissa Shipman I need some D. sarsiae for my research. It is the last species within the complex that I need. If you have access to live specimens of D. sarsaie, let me know.

Brendan Oonk Would be great if i would find one. Would be my first :) (Sorry Carissa.....)

Brendan Oonk You were right: the size is in there. Thanks!

Carissa Shipman No problem. I am studying these little buggers for my Masters. It is quite a challenge, but I am not giving up.

Ian Smith Hi Brendan, it's very like Doto coronata. I wouldn't have had the confidence to identify those I found or its prey without Bernard's help. To find it, I'd look for Sarsia exima and Garveia nutans, otherwise it's like spijkers op laag water zoeken . I found several on G. nutans on a small stone at extreme low water spring tide. They ranged from 2mm (assumed identity as with several adults - impossible to id in isolation) to 8.5mm length. One helpful feature I discovered was prominent head crests running forward from the rhinophores - D. coronata lacks them. Images of my finds, including close up of crests, G. nutans and link to Bernard's image of S. exima are at http://www.conchsoc.org/spaccount/Doto-sarsiae I stated max size as 9mm to just top my 8.5mm specimen, but possible it could go bigger than my experience. Cheers Ian

Becky Hitchin Doto sp - found in Mylor Marina during the squirts course!

Rachel Coppock Weston He was a beauty ;0)

Becky Hitchin he was!!

Becky Hitchin Is anyone a Doto expert?

João Pedro Silva Except for a few exceptions, I don't feel confortable identifying "Doto coronata look-alikes" even if we can identify the food source.

Becky Hitchin We'll leave it as a Doto then :D

Becky Hitchin We'll leave it as a Doto then :D

Ross Bullimore I'm with João Pedro Silva - not going any further than "Doto coronata group" myself! sorry!

Becky Hitchin I thought Rob muttered something about it not being coronata, why I was wondering really

Tony Gilbert Try contacting Anthony Holley - he's very good with Dotos.

Jim Anderson Can we identify this Doto sp. please. Found at 10 m in 8 deg C at Oban, Scotland yesterday

Brendan Oonk Could it be Doto coronata? There apears to be some red pigmentation on the inside of the cerata. Which is discribed as an identifying feature on http://www.seaslugforum.net/find/9478

Jim Anderson That was my 1st thought but the rhinophore sheaths look 'wrong' and there is not 'enough' red on the inner faces of the ceratal stalks from what I've seen before. Also lack of spots on the apex of each cerata. UW I thought this was D. fragilis because of the general tone of the cerata and the apparent lack of red pigment. I need to do more work learning the ID of the hydroids I think.

Tony Gilbert Perhaps D.millbayana? D. cuspidata is very similar, but no red pigmentation. Both are on Nemetesia the former only on N. ramosa though.

Brendan Oonk The white rim on the rhinophoral sheath suggests D.millbayana. But the cerata are not elongated and there should be 2 or 3 rows of tubercles on the cerata

Jim Anderson Could this be Doto hydrallmaniae ?

Brendan Oonk Here is good discription of D.hydrallmaniae in the apendix http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/84/m084p053.pdf

Jim Anderson Thanks Brendan. I'm still unsure.

Tony Gilbert Nothing from me am afraid. You could try contacting Anthony Holley who has quite a bit of knowlegde on Dotos. www.holleyuwphoto.com