Paula Lightfoot Is this Cadlina laevis? Taken yesterday in Saints Bay on the south coast of Guernsey
Jennifer Jones Yes I would say so Paula, it's got the yellow tubercles (glands) near the edge of the mantle, which has a yellow border as they can have
David Kipling Yes, those acid glands are characteristic. It can be quite variable - some are catalogued in this album.
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.175471842564104&type=1
David Kipling (That's the Cadlina variants album from this group).
João Pedro Silva Yes, this is similar to the ones we find here in Portugal:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpsilva1971/6800455513/
I've only seen it in Farilhões (Lat:39.4724, Lon:-9.5464). I don't know of sightings further south than Berlengas (Lat:39.4127, Lon:-9.5076).
Carlos Fernández-Cid Ramos In Galicia is frequent.http://www.nudipixel.net/location/galicia/
João Pedro Silva I was told it is very common in Esposende (Lat:41.5373, Lon: -8.788) but there are very few places to dive south of there until you get to Nazaré (rarely possible to dive there) and the Peniche peninsula, a place I know very well. In Berlengas and Farilhões (close to Peniche) it has been seen less than a dozen times (I'd say even half of that).
Simon Parker This was in about 4m inside a cave near Eyemouth, Scotland. It was close to a Cadlina laevis but I didn't think they came in yellow? Rostanga rubra?
Vinicius Padula Bernard Picton
David Kipling Immediate thought would be an unspotty Archidoris pseudoargus. Rostanga rubra is red with white sunglasses (sorry, marks between the rhinophores), neither of which you've got here.
Simon Parker Archidoris seems logical. I'm not used to seeing them this small. This was about 20 mm long.
David Kipling I guess the big ones have to start somewhere ...
Bernard Picton Yes, I think Archidoris pseudoargus. I've certainly seen plain yellow ones and the tubercles are right for that species.
Gary Cobb Bernard I am pretty sure this Doris pseudoargus. I thought Archidoris was replaced by Doris.
Simon Parker I hate to say it but WoRMS has it as Doris pseudoargus. Is nothing safe from name meddling?
Gary Cobb DNA is upstaging the way we are finding out the true species. These things happen. With time man discovers how, through new developments, to accurately ID an animal.
Gary Cobb It also seems Nudibranch Books out date as soon as they are published!
Simon Parker While I'm at it, I had this down as Cadlina laevis but I'm now wondering if it's another small Archidoris pseudoargus. Same site again; it was quite the nudi hot spot!
Robert Roy Not sure of ID on this one,
possibly Adalaria jannae, or Acanthodoris lutea
About 2 cm long, 10 m depth, Hussar Bay, near Port Hardy, British Columbia
Robert Roy hmm, don't think it's Doris Odhneri...
Evette Swindale Hi, found something similar in Nuweiba, Egypt at 4.5m the same size but brown/black, also was unable to find it in any reference books. I called mine a teddy bear nudi as it appears to be furry
Marli WakelingAcanthodoris hudsoni.
Marli Wakeling It is paler in the yellow areas than most.
Gary Cobb I think this is Acanthodoris pilosa
Robert Roy Yes, I think A. pilosa is correct! Does not have yellow margin of A. hudsoni...
Marli Wakeling A.pilosa has no yellow. I will be stubborn on this one.
Gary Cobb I could not see a yellow margin and so thought it could be A. pilosa. As I look at this photo I can not make out yellow on the papillae. I can see some peppering of cream on the papillae. I know A. pilosa can have cream peppering or brown peppering on the papillae. I have attached a photo taken by Jim Anderson of A. pilosa showing some cream colouration to the papillae and no yellow margin. Hummmm...
João Pedro Silva Again, molecular studies will determine how important is the lack or presence of the yellow margin. A similar case occurs with the northern and southern variations of Cadlina laevis.
http://www.seaslugforum.net/find/4793
Gary Cobb Very true Joao. Thanks! Marli don't give in!
Robert Roy Lol, it's interesting to watch the experts debate the ID of this one! I am no expert, but this nudi does not have the yellow margin at the base that seems characteristic of A. hudsoni. It does have long rhinophores that taper backwards, which according to some sources is characteristic of A. pilosi. This nudi does have a bit of yellow on its papillae but I am not sure if that would exclude it as being A. pilosi because A. pilosi is known to have significant colour variation.
Marli Wakeling Let's just call it A. hudlosa and be done with it. LOL. I may be stubborn, but I can also be wrong. I have just dug up this old photo of A. pilosa, and lo and behold, there is some faint yellow.
Gary Cobb Thank you guys for nice dialogue. You know without anaylising this animals DNA we can only hazard a guess based on what we observed in our experiences. You can see putting an ID to an a nudibranch can be tricky. Based on what I have seen I am happy with Acanthodoris pilosa. But everyone can have their own opinion - this is science!
Robert Roy I checked with a few experts who are not on Facebook, and I think the final verdict is Acanthodoris pilosa!
João Pedro Silva My first encounter with Cadlina laevis, a rare species in the southern limit of its distribution range. This species is more easily found here during the winter (when they breed) and have two unusual characteristics: direct development (hatch as fully developed slugs) and a 7 year longevity (most species live only 1 year).
João Pedro Silva Canon EOS 350D in Ikelite housing, Canon EF-S 18-55mm@50mm, 2x Nikonos SB-105 strobes, 21mm extension tube, +4 diopter, f/32, 1/200s, ISO 100.
Christian Skauge Still plenty of nudibranchs at the house reef of Gulen Dive Resort, Norway: Cadlina laevis, Cuthona rubescens, Cuthona gymnota, Flabellina nobilis and the illusive Cumanotus beaumonti - to mention a few :-)
Klas Malmberg Aquatilis Fina bilder! Jag längtar dit!!!!!
Arne Kuilman Stunning stuff there. What's the best time to dive there for nudibranchs?
Bernard Picton Has anyone got a photograph of Cadlina laevis spawn? It should have large eggs, about 600 in a coil. It may only spawn in February and March, but has also been reported in November near St Andrews, Scotland. The observations all seem to be on intertidal North Sea specimens.
João Pedro SilvaCadlina laevis is a rare find here in Portugal (more common in the north). All the individuals I've found in Portugal were on the same wall in the Farilhões islets (Berlengas archipelago) between 20 and 30m deep and during the winter. I'll try to pay attention to their spawn during the next months.
Carlos Fernández-Cid RamosCadlina Laevis. Ría de Vigo. Galicia. Spain. 22m
João Pedro Silva Very nice, Carlos! I've only recently found it but they all had yellow border and tubercles, even those I shot at Ría de Ferrol.
David Kipling By "border" do you mean those yellow acid glands we see on them here, typically?
João Pedro Silva I was actually referring to the thin yellow line along the edge of the mantle. This is the one I shot also in Galicia but a bit further north than the one shot by Carlos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpsilva1971/7152520981/
Carlos Fernández-Cid Ramos Here is relatively frecuent but with the yellow margin. This pattern of colors is more difficult to see
David Kipling João Pedro ... I see what you mean. I don't usually see that on the ones we get, but one or two of Jim's Scottish specimens show that yellow margin. Most typically ours are white with the acid-yellow glands round the edge.
http://www.nudibranch.org/Scottish%20Nudibranchs/cadlina-laevis.html
João Pedro Silva I think the most southern observations are from Berlengas (39.4095, -9.5119) and I've only seen them in Farilhões (39.4772, -9.5439) which is slightly further north. There they have less conspicuous acid glands but lots of yellow papillae all over the mantle and always with the thin yellow margin. Here's my friend Miguel Macedo's photo from Berlengas:
http://www.seaslugforum.net/find/14712
Carlos Fernández-Cid Ramos Joao. This one is the frecuent http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=435279293155308&set=oa.175471842564104&type=1&theater
João Pedro Silva Yes, Carlos. I've seen several at Ría de Ferrol and I know it's also common in Esposende, in the north of Portugal. Further south it's very rare.
David Kipling We are now starting to collect some interesting photos and discussions on this Wall, such as the differences between two species (Polycera for example) or the range of variants of one 'species' (eg Cadlina laevis).
I'm going to suggest we start making photo Albums that multiple people add their pictures to, each album covering one or more species that has been discussed (eg an album to gather together the various pics showing differences between the two Polycera). That will help in the future if someone wants to flick through and look at pictures comparing the two Polyceras, for example. You can of course Search the Group for posts, but it would be much easier to review if the pics were all in a single themes album.
This may also help Bernard, who I know is on the look out for pictures to illustrate the next edition of his field guide ;)
Are people OK with this idea?
Jim AndersonCadlina laevis
30 mm animal from Loch Fyne yesterday
João Pedro Silva This is a very rare species here in Portugal. I've seen it only twice and both time very recently on a couple of dives planned ahead to find it (11th and 31st of January). Here they usually have yellow papillae and a thin yellow line around the mantle:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpsilva1971/6681371043/
Bernard Picton The ones in the west of Ireland look a bit different too. This is a species which has direct development, no planktonic larva, so we'd expect a cline of variation with limited gene flow. It might make an interesting genetic investigation at some time.
João Pedro SilvaCadlina laevis, the Methuselah of the portuguese nudibranchs.
David Kipling oooh, do you have lifespan data João Pedro?
João Pedro Silva I don't, David. But Gonçalo Calado has.
David Kipling I will talk to him! My 'day job' is biogerontology, so I'm always looking for new 'model organisms'.
Sutherland Maciver I too would be very interested to know the life span of Cadlina laevis!
João Pedro Silva Not sure if Thompson's article on direct development mentions lifespan. If you can get the full text it may be worth to check:
T. E. Thompson (1967). Direct development in a Nudibranch, Cadlina laevis, with a discussion of developmental processes in Opisthobranchia. Journal of the Marine Biological Association of the United Kingdom, 47 , pp 1-22
João Pedro Silva Found this: http://www.vannarotolo.it/VOLUME/Pagina03-Todd.htm
Sutherland Maciver Ah yes I have that I was hoping someone had some fresh data! Thanks very much for sending the ref
João Pedro Silva From Christopher Todd's abstract:
"More unusual is the relatively small dorid, Cadlina laevis (L.): field and laboraotory observations have shown that this species is exceptional in being relatively small and very slow-growing. Individuals reproduce for the first time only when two years old and they are iteroparous, surviving to spawn for up to perhaps three or four further years. A further unusual feature is that only the one spawn mass is produced by reproductive individuals in any one year."
João Pedro Silva Has anyone ever did a "heat map" of the number of species observed per time of the year? For instance, here in Portugal in May-June one can see 20+ species in a single dive but barely exceeding 10 species during the winter months.
Brendan Oonk Thanks to "Stichting Anemoon" and their MOO-project we have good data on seasonal occurance of nudibranches in the Netherlands. The molluscs Atlas that will be published next year contains some graphs showing this seasonal shift. It might be posible to combine these graphs with watertemperature data..... Not sure who has the time, and the wish to do this though
João Pedro Silva Looking forward to see the Atlas. My idea for that map was restricted to the NE Atlantic where we have some species occurring more frequently in different periods in different areas, like Limacia clavigera or Polycera quadrilineata. Not sure these yearly variations are temperature related.
Peter H van Bragt Hello Joao, best nudi spotting along the Dutch coast is for sure late spring (May-July). up to 15-18speciesin a weekend by a single diver. Water temp is than approx 14-16 degrees C, I do not have the data with me where I am now. As far as I know the record is 13 species on one single dive out of a total of 57 species ever been recorded in the Netherlands. Winter time water temps drop here to 0-2 degrees C. Few nudis like this, but most species larvae seem to survive OK. Cheers Peter
João Pedro Silva Thanks, Peter! That period coincides with the peak of nudibranch diversity also here in Portugal, only with a few exceptions like Cadlina laevis and Spurilla neapolitana which appear to be more frequent during the winter. Yes, many species can be found at any time, namely most Felimare villafranca, Felimare cantabrica, 'Felimida' purpurea, Flabellina babai and others. Water temperature has been "strange" during the past few years frequently with 18-19ºC during autumn and 13-14ºC in August. But the temperatures here are usually between 13ºC-19ºC, being 15-16ºC the most common values (and these can occur at any time of the year, it's 16ºC right now).
I don't know the "national record" but my personal record until last June was something like 18 or 19 species during a single dive... then I had several dives over 20 species until I got to see 26 during a single dive on the 20th of June.
Peter H van Bragt Hello Joao, we also have some typical winter species, e,g. Aeolidia papillosa: juveniles start in september, they develop through winter, spawn and die in early spring. At your place water temps seem to be rather stable, here they differ greatly between summer and winter and this causes big differences in biodiversity. How large is the Portugese nudi fauna list (incl. species that are extreme rare or have not been seen for a while)?
João Pedro Silva We have ~140 nudibranch species. Latest checklist (2004) has 215 opisthobranchs. Mine and Gonçalo Calado's recent field guide has 115 species (95 nudibranchs and 20 other opisthobranchs) including some which were not included for Portugal in the 2004's checklist (yet present in the checklist as it includes the entire Iberian Peninsula plus the archipelagos of Açores, Madeira, Canarias and Baleares).
Bernard Picton Has anyone got a photograph of Cadlina laevis spawn? It should have large eggs, about 600 in a coil. It may only spawn in February and March, but has also been reported in November near St Andrews, Scotland. The observations all seem to be on intertidal North Sea specimens.
João Pedro SilvaCadlina laevis is a rare find here in Portugal (more common in the north). All the individuals I've found in Portugal were on the same wall in the Farilhões islets (Berlengas archipelago) between 20 and 30m deep and during the winter. I'll try to pay attention to their spawn during the next months.
Tony Gilbert Consensus is yes, at present, see comments :-), although I was slightly inclined towards Cadlina laevis owing to the "white-freckles" aka potential glands, hence bringing it to the forum.
João Pedro Silva Felimare villafranca com duas caudas
Local: Setúbal, Portugal
Spot: Pedra do Arflor
Profundidade: 12m
Data: 19-05-2012
Manuel Martínez Chacón ¿Son frecuentes estas mutaciones?
João Pedro Silva Não são muito frequentes mas também não são uma raridade que justifique uma publicação específica :)
Manuel Martínez Chacón ¿Y a qué pueden ser debidas?
João Pedro Silva Como são animais com um ciclo de vida muito curto (1 ano na maior parte das espécies... Cadlina laevis é um caso raro), têm uma capacidade de regeneração muito grande. Mas... por vezes a regeneração é feita com "erros". E ainda há sempre a possibilidade de uma malformação congénita. Podem não ser devidas a contaminantes, radiação ou ETs :)
O Gajo Dos Olivais Opá... e não pode ser obra do Homer Simpson por trazer barras da central nuclear onde trabalha? :)
Stephan Durst Hello, need some help for a Project of mine:
triing to hold Aeolidella glauca (North Sea) in a fishtank, somebody has infos about?
Thank You, Stephan
Stephan Durst maiby some Scientific Ideas ore so?
João Pedro Silva They feed on sagartiid anemones (http://www.habitas.org.uk/marinelife/species.asp?item=w15560). But don't expect them to live long and prosper because... they simply don't live very long.
Stephan Durst Thanks, aktually they build a egball min 12 houers later ;-) , mayby becaurse of the different pressure/temperature after catch.
Stephan Durst will try tomorrow to get some sagartiid`s and hope to give them the best habitat. do you know mayby how oald they get after catch normaly? thank you!
João Pedro Silva Laying eggs may also be a sign of stress. Most species have an annual life cycle so if you catch the large adults they'll probably live from weeks to months. There are a few exceptions, however. For instance, Cadlina laevis has been reported to live up to 7 years in captivity (and only breeding in the second year).
Christian Skauge Yeah, they tend to squeeze out eggs if they think they're going to die...
Stephan Durst Thanks, now they survived nearly one week and made only one time an Eg-ball, so I guess they feel confortable now.
Stephan Durst inside the eggs I could finde 2-4 larves under the binocular... quite amazing. And the sargatiid anemones I found also, but I recognise that they also start to feed on other anemones xD
Stephan Durst triing now to find a good Idea, out of Publications, for a short scientific project. Will tell u more...
Lucas CerCur Stephan, J Tardy published menay years ago a monograph on three species of Aeolidiella that can be founf in France. I think that I have scanned. Have you such a paper?
Stephan Durst Cool, will try to have alook at the Publication :-)
João Pedro SilvaCadlina laevis, the Methuselah of the portuguese nudibranchs.
David Kipling oooh, do you have lifespan data João Pedro?
João Pedro Silva I don't, David. But Gonçalo Calado has.
David Kipling I will talk to him! My 'day job' is biogerontology, so I'm always looking for new 'model organisms'.
Sutherland Maciver I too would be very interested to know the life span of Cadlina laevis!
João Pedro Silva Not sure if Thompson's article on direct development mentions lifespan. If you can get the full text it may be worth to check:
T. E. Thompson (1967). Direct development in a Nudibranch, Cadlina laevis, with a discussion of developmental processes in Opisthobranchia. Journal of the Marine Biological Association of the United Kingdom, 47 , pp 1-22
João Pedro Silva Found this: http://www.vannarotolo.it/VOLUME/Pagina03-Todd.htm
Sutherland Maciver Ah yes I have that I was hoping someone had some fresh data! Thanks very much for sending the ref
João Pedro Silva From Christopher Todd's abstract:
"More unusual is the relatively small dorid, Cadlina laevis (L.): field and laboraotory observations have shown that this species is exceptional in being relatively small and very slow-growing. Individuals reproduce for the first time only when two years old and they are iteroparous, surviving to spawn for up to perhaps three or four further years. A further unusual feature is that only the one spawn mass is produced by reproductive individuals in any one year."
