Aeolidiella alderi

Liz Morris Your thread is interesting, as I found this on Saturday in the Menai Strait, and it doesnt quite if most descriptions. Could this also be Aeolidiella alderi? As Chris said, my first instinct was a buff version of A.sanguinea.

David Kipling The key feature of A. alderi is that the first set of cerata (ie behind the rhinophores) have bigger cnidosacs, so the whiteness extends down muc of the length of those cerata. It's gives the nudi an Elizabethan 'ruff' appearance. I can't see those here. The Thompson Linnean has an excellent drawing in it (well they're all excellent!).

Liz Morris Well i'd kind of decided s/he was A.glauca but I think i'll record him as Aeolidiella as he doesnt quite fit, and I dont have that Linnean book. As always, I need more books and a better camera :)

Leila CB This is A. glauca, A. alderi has the bigger cnidosacs in the first group of cerata, and A. sanguinea lacks the white flecks over the dorsum...

Ian Smith Liz Morris five images of glauca from the Menai like yours at http://www.conchsoc.org/spAccount/aeolidiella-glauca

Liz Morris Thanks very much Leila and Ian. Well its reassuring to know I'm on the right lines!

Mick Otten On my blog: a defenitive yes for Aeolidiella alderi, the collared sea-slug, as a new species for the Netherlands: http://micksmarinebiology.blogspot.nl/2012/12/aeolidiella-alderi-new-species-in-dutch.html

Richard Lord This was found by PMNHS member John Llewellyn-Jones - or at least it was in his water-filled tray. I think this is Aeolidiella alderi but would appreciate confirmation. This species is not uncommon in Guernsey.

Manuel Martínez Chacón Aeolidiella alderi, from Algeciras, Spain.

Lucas CerCur El otro dia me dijistes que nunca la habias visto. Pues....ya la conoces.

Manuel Martínez Chacón Seguramente me confundiría... como es un hallazgo reciente se me olvidó que la tenía recién retratada.

Chris Wood One of our Seasearchers from Sussex has sent this picture in for ID. In view of the cnidosacs is it Aeolidiella alderi (which doesn't seem to be recorded from the area) or a buff coloured version of Aeolidiella sanguinea, which I see from the NBN that Dawn Watson has recorded from North Norfolk - what colour were those ones? Habitiat is right for either with snakelocks and daisies around to eat

Richard Lord Do you know their size?

Phillip Hyden Stunning

Ian Smith From wide gap between oral tentacles and slightly laterally compressed "willow leaf" cerata I'd say one of Aeolidia papillosa agg. As Richard asks, what's the size?

David Kipling I'd agree it's not A. alderi. The cerata are more rounded as opposed to the more flattened ones here (as Ian says). The white ruff on alderi is also very prominent. Let me go dig out a photo of alderi for you Chris.

Chris Wood Certainly there isn't a white ruff on these so not A. alderi. Size to judge from the habitat is 6-10cm and A, papillosa would occur in the area but the presence of white cnidosacs on the end of the cerata was leading me to think it might be something else.

Bernard Picton Lucas CerCur, Leila CB, you might like to comment on the Aeolidia papillosa situation?

Leila CB That's an Aeolidia, not Aeolidiella... and it looks like one of the new species, could you please Chris Wood tell me where's it from?

Chris Wood Selsey, Sussex, shallow sublittoral

Ian Smith Chris 6-10cm is far too big for Aeolidiella. As David's given a link to alderi, here's one to sanguinea, check out the key features and similar spp. bullet points. http://www.conchsoc.org/spAccount/aeolidiella-sanguinea

Leila CB thanks Chris Wood for the information!! it'll awesome if next time you see it, you collect some for me... :)

Leila CB Actually, as Lucas CerCur said, we're trying to complete the range of distribution of this complex of species, so any help is very welcome :)

Justin Evans These are very common in the waters off Selsey at this time of year, often occurring in groups of 4-6 at depths of 1 to 6m. More photos of them in Mulberry Divers FB postings at https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.572460712785116.1073741845.213955105302347&type=1, and https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=572042549493599&set=a.572042486160272.1073741844.213955105302347&type=1&relevant_count=2, and

Neil Watson These two had eggs next to them on the dive, not sure if that was by chance or not. They were about 6-8cm big, in water about 4-5m deep.

Rob Durrant This is surely Aeolidiella alderi, specimens from Hannafore on consecutive days. The first about 22mm, the second as you see appx 27-30mm. A new species to me. In the first image, the 'ruff of white cerata immediately behind the head' (Collins) is visible, though not in the second. And the species 'recalls Grey Sea Slug, but smaller' (Steery & Cleave). Would you agree?

Ian Smith Hi Rob the first two with Y mark on head are Aeolidia papillosa - the Y is diagnostic when it occurs as nothing else has it. Some "A. papillosa" don't have the Y, but they are probably a hitherto unrecognised species that has recently been separated with DNA. We await publication of the results and correlation with morphology. But your third one isn't an A. papillosa segregate in my opinion; I think it could be Aeolidiella alderi as you suggest. Note the gap between the oral tentacles; wide on Aeolidia papillosa aggregate ; narrow on Aeolidiella group. The white ruff is variable and can occur on other Aeolidiella spp., but the colour and body markings make me think yours is probably A. alderi. Aeolidia and the 3 British Aeolidiella species have detailed illustrated accounts at http://www.conchsoc.org/groupbrowser/Marine%20slug (click on last 4 thumbnails on page.)

Rob Durrant Thank you very much, Ian. You've made me look again. I jumped to the conclusion that as they look broadly similar and are both white and found in same area they were two specimens of the same species. But now I see that not only does the larger one have a very clear white Y mark lacking in the one which has the 'ruff', but that the cerata are actually different too.

Erling Svensen I do not have a good feeling for the Aeolidiella alderi or Aeolidiella glauca. I have not a good feeling A. glauca. I will do a night dive today and look for it again. If I find it I will take closer pictures. But again, I post a close up of the rhinophores and hope one of you can look again if its a A. alderi or A. glauca?

Bernard Picton I find these Aeolidiella species difficult too. My best guess for this one is A. glauca; I think A. alderi would have larger cnidosacs.

Erling Svensen I have tried to figure out what specie this may be. My suggestions falls on Aeolidiella alderi. Anybody that can confirm that?

Klas Malmberg Aquatilis Interesting! I have got a picture from Gulen that is exactly the same color and style. The typical A. glauca in Sweden has no color in the rhinoforer, so it defenately looks like something else. I will check my books at home when I´m home from the Filippines, but I think A. alderi is possibel

Jim Anderson It looks like Aeolidiella glauca to me - I've got a range of colours here http://www.nudibranch.org/Scottish%20Nudibranchs/aeolidiella-glauca.html

Erling Svensen Yes, that could be so. I still hope for A. alderi, but I agree that your pictures shows species with the same colours and shape. Thanks!

Rob Durrant This is surely Aeolidiella alderi, specimens from Hannafore on consecutive days. The first about 22mm, the second as you see appx 27-30mm. A new species to me. In the first image, the 'ruff of white cerata immediately behind the head' (Collins) is visible, though not in the second. And the species 'recalls Grey Sea Slug, but smaller' (Steery & Cleave). Would you agree?

Ian Smith Hi Rob the first two with Y mark on head are Aeolidia papillosa - the Y is diagnostic when it occurs as nothing else has it. Some "A. papillosa" don't have the Y, but they are probably a hitherto unrecognised species that has recently been separated with DNA. We await publication of the results and correlation with morphology. But your third one isn't an A. papillosa segregate in my opinion; I think it could be Aeolidiella alderi as you suggest. Note the gap between the oral tentacles; wide on Aeolidia papillosa aggregate ; narrow on Aeolidiella group. The white ruff is variable and can occur on other Aeolidiella spp., but the colour and body markings make me think yours is probably A. alderi. Aeolidia and the 3 British Aeolidiella species have detailed illustrated accounts at http://www.conchsoc.org/groupbrowser/Marine%20slug (click on last 4 thumbnails on page.)

Rob Durrant Thank you very much, Ian. You've made me look again. I jumped to the conclusion that as they look broadly similar and are both white and found in same area they were two specimens of the same species. But now I see that not only does the larger one have a very clear white Y mark lacking in the one which has the 'ruff', but that the cerata are actually different too.

Manuel Martínez Chacón ¿Me ayudais a identificar este nudibranquio?

João Pedro Silva Aeolidiella alderi

Encarni Sánchez Castillo Spurilla neapolitana?

Encarni Sánchez Castillo Aeolidiella alderi era el otro que tenía en mente

João Pedro Silva Não é Spurilla neapolitana, tenho a certeza. Trata-se de Aeolidiella alderi: típico primeiro grupo de cerata com cnidosacos alongados que lhe dão um aspecto de "gola" ou "juba".

João Pedro Silva http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpsilva1971/6828070676/

Manuel Martínez Chacón Me queda claro, Aeolidiella alderi, muchas gracias.

Encarni Sánchez Castillo Pues rectifico en mi foto. Thanks ; )

João Pedro Silva Eventualmente poderá confundir-se esta espécie com Aeolidiella sanguinea ou com Aeolidiella glauca. Spurilla neapolitana é muito distinta, com cerata em grupos melhor definidos e os rinóforos não são lisos como em Aeolidiella spp.: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpsilva1971/6751672883/

David Kipling These two (different) specimens were found intertidal and are ~ 1cm in length. There is no white mottling over the dorsum and tentacles, no white V on the head, and has a very prominent 'ruff' of white cerata just behind the rhinophores. Initial thoughts are Aeolidiella alderi but am wondering if it's just a small A. glauca?

David Kipling There's a nice photo of a specimen from Lough Hyne by Julia Nunn and Graham Day on the Conch Soc website that is an absolute dead ringer for this specimen. So I think we can say this is a confirmed ID ;) http://www.conchsoc.org/spaccount/aeolidiella-alderi

David Kipling Julia Nunn ... Bernard Picton ... I've just had a chat with Ian Smith about an animal he had several years ago in Menai, so wanted to double-check this ID. Are you happy it's alderi? It's got those prominent enlarged cnidosacs that I gather are the characteristic of this species.

Julia Nunn Happy with Aeolidiella alderi â€" classic look

David Kipling Thanks Julia - it's the spitting image of your pic on the conch soc website.

Orietta Rivolta Aeolidiella alderi Cocks,1852 Numana,Italy August 2011

Orietta Rivolta Ops...August 2010

Vinicius Padula What a nice species :)

René Weterings "Aeolidia papillosa" Found in the Eastern Scheldt in The Netherlands on the 12th of december 2012, at a watertemperature of 3 degrees Celsius (about 38 degrees Fahrenheit) and a depth of 5m.

Lucas CerCur But ...is this the real papillosa? I feel this specimen not.

René Weterings Yes I am sure.

Marco Faasse The beast looks a bit strange, but in this area not unusual for A. papillosa. In my opinion there is no doubt. Note the white triangle on the head.

Lucas CerCur I supposed that this would be your thoughts. However, molecular studies that has been carried in my lab very recently (unpublished), showed that in the Netherlands there are two species under this name.

René Weterings Ok, that's interesting news! But as far as the average divers knows....(like me) we only have the Aeolidia papillosa. And of course the Aeolidiella glauca which looks a bit like it.

Marco Faasse Lucas CerCur, I am very curious to read your results when published. Especially curious which separate niches the two species occupy. Always interesting to see in retrospect how it was possible to overlook things.

Brendan Oonk Lucas , I would like to have more information on this. Are there any morfological/anatomical differences, or is it just genetics? Any idea on if and when this will be published? René Don't forget the recently found Aeolidiella alderi ;)

Lucas CerCur Brendan, it is difficult to distinguish both species. We have to discover this carrying molecular phylogenetic analyses.

Lucas CerCur It seems like the true papillosa is darker usually, and the cerata are spindle shape vs an hooked top in the non true papillosa.

Lucas CerCur But to compare more material from different localities would be much better. Moreover, we know nothing about potential ecological and biological differences.

Lucas CerCur I don't know when we will publish our results, but this will take time because we want to have more data and information.

Brendan Oonk Thanks for your response! If we can help you by collecting data/material/fotos just let it know. (Patiently) Looking forward to your publication :)

Lucas CerCur Brendan, what is your potential sampling area?

David Kipling These two (different) specimens were found intertidal and are ~ 1cm in length. There is no white mottling over the dorsum and tentacles, no white V on the head, and has a very prominent 'ruff' of white cerata just behind the rhinophores. Initial thoughts are Aeolidiella alderi but am wondering if it's just a small A. glauca?

David Kipling There's a nice photo of a specimen from Lough Hyne by Julia Nunn and Graham Day on the Conch Soc website that is an absolute dead ringer for this specimen. So I think we can say this is a confirmed ID ;) http://www.conchsoc.org/spaccount/aeolidiella-alderi

David Kipling Julia Nunn ... Bernard Picton ... I've just had a chat with Ian Smith about an animal he had several years ago in Menai, so wanted to double-check this ID. Are you happy it's alderi? It's got those prominent enlarged cnidosacs that I gather are the characteristic of this species.

Julia Nunn Happy with Aeolidiella alderi â€" classic look

David Kipling Thanks Julia - it's the spitting image of your pic on the conch soc website.

Giorgio Russo she was so fat!

Gary Cobb Nudibranchs are actually hermaphrodite!

Giorgio Russo i know, but for me it's a she! :)

Gary Cobb And a beauty she is!

João Pedro Silva It's funny that in spite of being hermafrodites most species have feminine names. Actually, the masculine names are the exception (Janolus, Eubranchus are masculine). I know I've only mentioned the genus but it's easy to see the specific epithet usually agrees on gender (sometimes it's even changed for that reason).

Gary Cobb Hey Joao nice thread and quite true! Do the rules state that when a species is described and named, no one can change it unless they prove it is another species? Genus changes don't change the species name.

Gary Cobb You're referring to genus right? It also seems that most species names are named after men.

João Pedro Silva The species named after men have the possessive form (like Aeolidiella alderi, which translates to "Alder's Aeolidiella") but most have actually attributes in the feminine form (for instance, Jorunna tomentosa, Doriopsilla areolata, Diaphorodoris papillata, etc).

João Pedro Silva Janolus cristatus has the specific epithet in the masculine form to agree with the genus (otherwise it would be "cristata").

Gary Cobb Thanks Joao.