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Tubularia indivisa

Linnaeus, 1758

Bernard Picton This seems to be Flabellina rufibranchialis, also quite common here at Gulen at the moment, but in a different habitat to the F. verrucosa. Much more slender and feeding on Tubularia indivisa.

Olivier Tuccini Superbe... Good job

Message posted on NE Atlantic Nudibranchs on 11 Mar 2013
Keith Hiscock Desmacidon fruticosum (a sponge) has always fascinated me since seeing castle-like growths of it in the Isles of Scilly in the late 1960s. Is it long-lived and slow growing or what? I believe this pic. is of D. fruticosum (Pencra Head, Lizard, Cornwall, about 30m depth) and it seems to have overgrown Tubularia indivisa (suggesting fast growth). The collected specimen slimed profusely but I will have a look at the spicules next time in the lab. Meanwhile, what you think about the id.?

Chris Wood Also saw it on the same dive around Nemertesia antennina

Message posted on Seasearch Identifications on 16 Jun 2013
Keith Hiscock Desmacidon fruticosum (a sponge) has always fascinated me since seeing castle-like growths of it in the Isles of Scilly in the late 1960s. Is it long-lived and slow growing or what? I believe this pic. is of D. fruticosum (Pencra Head, Lizard, Cornwall, about 30m depth) and it seems to have overgrown Tubularia indivisa (suggesting fast growth). The collected specimen slimed profusely but I will have a look at the spicules next time in the lab. Meanwhile, what you think about the id.?

Message posted on Seasearch Identifications on 16 Jun 2013
Erling Svensen Any one that can say something about this hydroid?

Simon Parker Looks like Tubularia indivisa to me.

Erling Svensen Tubularia indivisa is the "big" red one between the small one. It is the small one (close up) that I am interested in.

Simon Parker From the relative scales I'd say the smaller one is Tubularia laryx.

Bernard Picton It doesn't look like Tubularia larynx, nor anything else I've ever seen. Where are you Erling?

Erling Svensen I am out of Bodø close to Lofoten in north Norway on a scientific cruise with Bjørn Gulliksen and many others. Diving from a ship is very nice :-)

Marco Faasse Probably Eudendrium. One ring of tentacles, funnel-shaped proboscis ans shape of the hydranth suggest this genus.

Erling Svensen I agree, Marco. What about Eudendrium annulatum?

Marco Faasse I don't know E. annulatum Erling Svensen, is it a northern species?

Erling Svensen Yes, I think so. I know that Bernard have picture on his Habitas pages.

Marco Faasse Yes Erling Svensen, E. annulatum and E. arbuscula seem likely candidates. Schuchert (2012, Synopsis British Fauna) has a key: E. annulatum is more tree-like, sometimes with bark-like covering of the main stem.

Bernard Picton Can you collect some? Eudendrium arbuscula is tree-like with the polyps on short branches. Peter Schuchert (Museum Geneva) recently revised the European Eudendrium species.

Message posted on NE Atlantic Cnidaria on 10 May 2013
Erling Svensen Bernard said something about nudies eating different food when juvenil and adult. Here are many Dendronotus frondosus on Obelia. They do not eat Obelia when adult?

Peter H van Bragt They do eat a variety of hydroids that may be available. However in Dutch coastal waters there is a distinct preference for Tubularia indivisa, if available. Feeding on this large solitary hydroid this nudibranch grows to a much larger size (12+ cm.) with also a much larger spawn than when feeding on other hydroids. An interesting form of ecophenotypical variation. As soon as T. indivisa is locally depleted by the predating nudi's they shift to other small hydroids. Cheers Peter H van Bragt

Bernard Picton I think that idea of ecophenotypical variation needs testing, Peter. It could be that we have several similar species here in Dendronotus.

Peter H van Bragt What we observe is that D. frondosus is year round present as relatively small indivuduals. In an annual reoccuring cycle we also see that when animals start feeding on T indivisa in winter, that animals solely feeding on T. indivisa tend to become extremely large. As soon as T. indivisa is depleted by predation the large ones have reproduced/spawned and only smaller individuals remain feeding on other hydroids. Outside the T. indivisa covered feeding grounds we do not find such extreme sized animals. Would you have access to DNA testing facilities??? I can provide specimen in early spring.

Lucas CerCur Erling, this is a very good question that shoud be tested bofore a reply.

Lucas CerCur I think that it is probable that changes in the diet of some opisthobrachs can happened. But I have not objetive data to confirme this.

Lucas CerCur Only some observations that could be use as departure hypothesis that should be tested.

Peter H van Bragt So, who can do the DNA work?????

Lucas CerCur What species you would like to sequence?

Peter H van Bragt Hi lucas, it's about Dendronotus frondosus: large specimen who feed on T indivisa and smaller ones who feed on other hydroids.

Lucas CerCur I'll try to reply later. I'm returning by train to home. OK?

Peter H van Bragt We're not in a rush ;-)

Cynthia D. Trowbridge From Sea Slug Forum: Robilliard, G. A. 1975. The nudibranch Dendronotus frondosus - one species or four? The Festivus (San Diego Shell Club), 6(8): 44-47.

Bernard Picton or ten?

Lucas CerCur I think that D. frondosus could be (or not) another case similar to Aeolidia papillosa.

Lucas CerCur In fact, in 1999 (I think) Mikael Thollesson published a paper in which replace the name D. lacteus as valid, when was considered as a junior synonym of the former.

Lucas CerCur So, in my view it is necessary to get (when possible) material from different localities of the theoretical distribution of the species, and then...start the sequencing.

Message posted on NE Atlantic Nudibranchs on 23 Jan 2013
Jørn Ari Snoghøj - Lillebælt OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA Copyright: Jorn Ari

Jim Anderson I would say it is not - it looks more like Flabellina browni to me

Jørn Ari But what about the red oesophagus, situated just behind the rhinophores, is clearly visible?

Robert Eriksson Look at the length of the oral tentacles,, they are about the same as the rhinohores=flabellina if much longer then Facelina! Rings and colour are not very stable traits for species discrimination!

Robert Eriksson .. blooper.. Rings on the Rhinophores (lamellae) are a stable trait though. Not sure what you mean mean rings Jorn? Coloured rings of e.g. White pigmentstions are not stable for species deduction in any species of the Flabellina or Facelina (personlopinion).

Robert Eriksson ... Mind that the oral tentacle and rhinophores are retractible and you need to Watch the animal for some time to be able to deduce it's "normal" relaxed state. I agree that it is a Flabellina, but never saw brownii as a good species - any gene-studies done on brownii?

Jørn Ari I ment lamellae

Bernard Picton Sorry, but I completely disagree with you Robert Eriksson, details of coloration are very good characters, but you have to weight them by how big and mature each individual animal is. There is considerable evidence that CO1 barcode sequences are identical in closely related species of marine invertebrates, so the DNA evidence is partly dependent on which bit of DNA you sequence. There is a lot of observing and collecting to be done yet before we have all the answers...

Lucas CerCur I agree with you Bernard Picton

Bernard Picton Oh, and I should say I've seen hundreds of Coryphella browni in the field, kept them in containers with Coryphella lineata which they were sharing their Tubularia indivisa with, watched them considering whether to mate with a C. lineata and deciding not to....

Lucas CerCur I have seen photos of Trapania lineata mating with supposed T. fusca!!!!! from southern Spain.

Bernard Picton ;-) so then we have to determine whether the offspring were fertile. Horse + Donkey = Ass.

Bernard Picton So absence of mating is evidence of separate species, if mating is possible by the species normally sharing a habitat.

Bernard Picton But cross-species mating occurs, and sometimes hybrids are even fertile. It is thought from DNA evidence that the "species" Alcyonium hibernicum is a hybrid, yet it occurs in areas where neither parent is present.

Lucas CerCur Of course.

Lucas CerCur As I told to my students, Biology is no Maths

Lucas CerCur Fortunately....

Robert Eriksson Don't be sorry, for disagreeing, Bernard Picton, these discussions are advancing our knowledge! I would like to expain myself briefly about the colouration issue. In Flabellina, the colouration of the rhinophores and the cerata is very variable, at least when looking at Nordic specimens. Some specimens have rings, some have a partial ring, some have only spots of pigment. I am only claiming these traits in adult specimens. Colouration might be stable in other species. Of course variability of genes depends on what part of the DNA you are sequencing, as you stated. Thats why you tend to use noncoding or at least more variable genes (with a "faster evolution") for deducing closely related species. I am truly confident in that we never will have all the answers...

Message posted on NE Atlantic Nudibranchs on 08 Jan 2013
Darryl Mayer I'd like a definite ID on these if possible. I was thinking Oatenpipe Hydroid, Tubularia indivisa, the ones Flaballina lineata munch on before laying their eggs. Loch Sunart, near Strontian.

Marco Faasse Certaily looks like it, but I have never seen the similar Hybocodon prolifer and Ectopleura crocea, so I can't be sure. Ectopleura larynx is different.

David Kipling How would you tell the difference between this and T. larynx from this photo, Dawn? Underwater it's easier, especially if side-by-side (we get both on mooring lines in the Cleddau).

David Kipling lol! Very true, the larynx do grow as nice little bushy mounds. Be ideal ground cover in my garden (and since we're in Wales it's probably wet enough for them to survive, provided I sprinkle a bit of salt around).

Message posted on NE Atlantic Cnidaria on 03 Apr 2012
Ruth Sharratt Hi, I've posted some pics from the Menai Strait. I hope you like them. Amazing amount of life, lots of sponge, (including loads of purse sponges), hydroids, dahlia anemones and asterias rubens. I think the tubularia indivisa is at an early stage in its development. I recognise the nudi, but can't find its name. This is the first time I dived the Strait this arly in the season. In many ways, very different from latest in the year. But so cold...... I couldn't feel the shutter towards the end. I really need thicker gloves. Ruth Sharratt

Message posted on Seasearch North Wales on 25 Feb 2013
Liz Morris Vis was pretty good in the strait yesterday... managed 55minutes in 6 degrees - lots of nudidudis Coryphella lineata chomping down on some oaten pipe hydroids, Tubularia indivisa. Lots of scorpion fish eggs too... will post you some inspiring (if not very good!) pictures soon. Anyone else managed a dive locally yet?? Your photos, relevant dive spottings and comments are all welcome here!

Ryan Mowat Matt Biber (filling out his Seasearch form!!) and I dived under Menai Bridge at slack on Wednesday evening. Awesome dive, 4m viz, life everywhere, had torches on the whole time though

Ruth Sharratt I'm thinking of diving the Strait tomorrow. LW Liverpool is 17.09 which makes slack around 14.00. I'm hoping to get some good pics. Anyone fancy joining me?

Liz Morris the cable ruth... be careful though its springy now :-) loooing forward to seeing some spring season dive pics :-)

Message posted on Seasearch North Wales on 22 Feb 2013
Tony Gilbert About 30mm, Menai Straits, 10m. I am wondering whether this is a C. verrucosa, as it has a number of the characteristics, such as distinct orange cerata, and very grainy, and there are a couple of white spots on the body (not seen on this image, but another I have). C. brownii are less orange, more red, or orange-red and perhaps not as grainy. It was the different colouration that drew my attention. I had seen and photographed several C. brownii on the same dive and in the locale. The rhinophores are not ringed, but slightly ribbed, and have some white markings - as do the propoidal tentacles; the cerata have white rings at the end, with opaque quartz coloured tips.The tail has a white stripe down its centre. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.236433703157387.57884.100003722780643&type=1#!/photo.php?fbid=239389106195180&set=a.236433703157387.57884.100003722780643&type=3&theater

Bernard Picton Coryphella rufibranchialis. I just rescued this from synonymy after seeing photos from Erling Svensen and Jorn Ari but it will need to be published I suppose, not that it needs a paper... The white on the long tail is diagnostic... Interesting that it seems to be on Garveia nutans; that is worth following up as there is plenty of that hydroid in Strangford Lough where C. rufibranchialis is common. They certainly swap onto Tubularia indivisa when they get big, but I noticed the small ones were in a different place and presumably eating a smaller hydroid. Nice.....

Tony Gilbert Thanks Bernard, I probably wouldn't have id'd this as C. verrucosa rufibranchialis. I've another shot that clearly shows two white spots at the base of the first cerata, and better image of the Garveia nutans hydroids. The difference beteen this and the parent is that the parent has a long tail with a broken/spoted white line, right? Would you also say, if this species is found on Garveia nutans, then that would be diagnostic of C. rufibranchialis or does its parent eat G. nutans as well or just T. indivisa? https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.236433703157387.57884.100003722780643&type=1#!/photo.php?fbid=240047172796040&set=a.236433703157387.57884.100003722780643&type=3&theater It was certainly found in a very strong tidal stream, which was starting to run quite badly when I was photographig this. It was on The Cable dive at Menai Straits, the area between the cable and Ynys y Moch island - at the reef start around 10m. Garveia nutans is quite prevalent here as is T. indivisa.

Bernard Picton Tony - you misunderstand me. You need to read up on the biological species concept. I'm saying that there are two species - C. verrucosa and C. rufibranchialis. It is particularly important as C. rufibranchialis is the TYPE species of Coryphella. http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/VA1BioSpeciesConcept.shtml

Bernard Picton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_species

Tony Gilbert Ok, thanks Bernard, yes more reading!

Tony Gilbert I usually check WoRMS: http://www.marinespecies.org/aphia.php?p=taxdetails&id=162691 Also, I found another web-record from the Straits, taken Sept 2011, which is reassuring to know others are finding them as well: www.conchsoc.org/node/6073

Message posted on NE Atlantic Nudibranchs on 19 Jan 2013
Animalia (Kingdom)
  Cnidaria (Phylum)
    Hydrozoa (Class)
      Hydroidolina (Subclass)
        Anthoathecata (Order)
          Capitata (Suborder)
            Tubulariidae (Family)
              Tubularia (Genus)
                Tubularia indivisa (Species)
Associated Species