Aplidium glabrum

Floris Bennema Does anyone know these small cuplike polyps? I found them two years ago in a Dutch marine port on Aplidium glabrum, in June. Inside it looks a bit like undulating lasagna. I only found them once and till now nobody recognized them.

Allen Collins They look to be some sort of scyphopolyps, the benthic stage of "true" jellyfish (Scyphozoa).

Cynthia D. Trowbridge Yes, scyphistoma of scyphozoans. You can see the transverse fission or stobilation of one polyp near the top....sort of looks like a stack of dinner plates.

Floris Bennema Ah, great, nobody (including myself) noticed the transversal lineage before. It's remarkable that it's so hard to find information on scyphistoma of other species than Aurelia.

Cynthia D. Trowbridge In our area (Oregon), I think the only ones commonly seen are Aurelia. I have only seen them a few times in my life (3x in Oregon and 2x in Ireland) so this is a great find.

Bernard Picton Note the "Aplidium glabrum" in the close-up at the end of this piece.

David Kipling Ah yes, I see!

Niels Schrieken Another change. I think aplidium glabrum. Netherlands, Bruinisse, Oosterschelde.

David Kipling Yes, that feels like the things I've seen that we've been discussing.

Bernard Picton Photographed out of water. Possible Aplidium glabrum.

Bernard Picton Keith Hiscock, this looks like a photo you have in the Marlin gallery. How did you confirm the ID? I'm sure it isn't the same thing I've been calling Aplidium glabrum. http://www.habitas.org.uk/marinelife/species.asp?item=ZD600

David Kipling That certainly has the feel of the Cleddau animals. ESP the blue tinge.

Bernard Picton Temporary name for this entity, "Glossy seasquirt".

Becky Hitchin That looks the same as I've been A. glabrum from Kent, thanks to Marco Faasse suggesting that he calls the same thing A. glabrum

Marco Faasse This species was first found in The Netherlands in 1977 and seemed associated with oyster culture. It was reported as most likely A. glabrum and after that everybody here uses that name, although the original recorder wasn't quite sure. He had written to Millar, who had responded that the taxonomy of the genus Aplidium was in a confused state. In conclusion: this may be a non-native species in Europe; the recent records from the UK seem to confirm this. It would be interesting to find an ascidian taxonomist willing to study it.

David Kipling Oyster culture would certainly fit with their location in the Cleddau. Well I know where they live now so we can easily sample them ... pity I have no clue how to fix and dissect squirts!

Becky Hitchin I can show you (badly!) if you can get some HCl and some haemotoxylin

Niels Schrieken Aplidium glabrum. Netherlands, Bruinisse, Oosterschelde.

David Kipling Looks like a thin transparent delicate test over zooids, as opposed to a solid mass. I would have said Diplosoma?

Niels Schrieken You are right David. This is Diplosoma listerianum.

Bernard Picton Is this Asterocarpa humilis in the background?

Niels Schrieken Ascidiella aspersa.

Bernard Picton Oh, not with those siphons I think! Have you got other photos?

Niels Schrieken Tomorrow I will go back to the same spot will make some pictures.

Niels Schrieken Why do you it's asterocarpa? As far as I know this sea squirt is never found in the Netherlands.

Bernard Picton Just a guess, Niels. I've not seen many ascidians with siphons like that, with such obvious papillae. I've not seen Asterocarpa either! It is well established in Northern France and SW England now. http://www.springerlink.com/content/e01215217m4q8864/

David Kipling http://www.springerlink.com/content/e01215217m4q8864/MediaObjects/10530_2012_286_Fig1_HTML.jpg

David Kipling (that should be a link to the key pic in the paper)

Bernard Picton Oh, it's not that then, I remembered the nice pattern, but Asterocarpa doesn't have any papillae.

David Kipling Am I right in thinking that I should be referring to Sidnyum (eg elegans, turbinatum etc) more properly as Aplidium? http://www.marbef.org/data/aphia.php?p=taxdetails&id=103441

David Kipling Actually it's Aplidium on NBN: http://www.searchnbn.net/gridMap/gridMap.jsp?allDs=1&srchSpKey=NBNSYS0000177968

David Kipling Same is true for Aplidium elegans as well ...

David Kipling This probably explains why there are no records for these species in Norfolk ;)

David Kipling We have every intention - roll on Aug!

David Kipling Kate Lock and my carer are certainly coming. Does Becky Hitchin know about this as well?

David Kipling A week of squirts should temp Becky out of Kent ;)

Kate Lock Lalalalalalalalalalala I am with Dawn Watson on this one......

David Kipling So Kate and Dawn ... doesn't marine recorder beep an error at you when you try and enter Sidnyum (since it's out of date)?

Kate Lock I hate databases....and MR does not like Macs and I like Macs so I kindly pass on all the forms to that nice Jennifer Jones to do the MR entry and earn some extra winter holiday money!!

Jennifer Jones No David, it accepts Sidnyum but not Aplidium

David Kipling Aplidium nor Sidnyum on NBN and WoRMS... argh!!!

David Kipling But which is correct?

Paula Lightfoot According to WoRMS Aplidium is accepted and Sidnyum is unaccepted. MR will get there! http://www.marinespecies.org/msbias/aphia.php?p=taxdetails&id=103683

David Kipling Dawn's going to go all punk and rebellious on me and stick with Sidnyium now!

Becky Hitchin I'm sure I've managed to enter Aplidium into MR!

Paula Lightfoot Aplidium elegans is in the MR look-up table (since Nov 07) but Aplidium turbinatum is not, only Sidnyum turbinatum.

Becky Hitchin and Aplidium punctum is in there I think?

David Kipling And hopefully Aplidium glabrum, nordmanni and pallidum?

Paula Lightfoot yes yes yes and yes! but I don't think punctum ever was a Sidnyum, whereas elegans and turbinatum were...I think...I'm getting confused by all these squirts!

David Kipling For those of us who use Habitas, it's really only these two Sidnyum/Aplidium species that are different between Habitas and NBN. Phew!

Jennifer Jones I wasn't saying Aplidium spp weren't recognised in MR, I was talking specifically about the species mentioned!

David Kipling I know, we just got paranoid Jen ;) Having spent way too long today going through every ascidian entry on NBN I am now a little spooked by just how many Didemnum species have been recorded in the UK. Those are going to end up in a "flat sheet with holes" category at this rate (alongside "thin orange crust", a phrase that covers a multitude of sins...).

Jennifer Jones Now maybe you understand why I won't name a lot of sponge crusts without thorough investigation!

Becky Hitchin At least D. vex is included in MR now :)

David Kipling But no map data on NBN, correct?