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Sagartiogeton undatus
(Müller, 1778)
Sven Termul Snakelocks anemone (Sagartiogeton undatus)
Taken in the Netherlands with the panasonic GF1 sea&sea YS110 with snoot.
F/14 1/125 sec. iso 200
Cat Wilding The last one to check from Fowey, at ~10m on hard substrate but surrounded mud... Sort of sagartiaish?!? Photo by Paddy Maher
Marco FaasseSagartiogeton undatus
George Brown I did think about that Marco but couldn't see the line that runs through each tentacle. I guess variations may exist. Is there a way of zooming in on facebook photos or does its small file size not allow this?
Marco Faasse Right George, the line is a tell-tale character, but indeed the odd specimen without exists. I downloaded the image and cropped it (sorry Cat) but the line remains invisible. The black streak together with the other features made me say S. undatus.
Wendy Northway can anyone help with ID this anemone?
Brendan Oonk Could it be Sagartiogeton undatus?
Wendy Northway thanks Brendan Oonk - I've also had another vote for undatus so I think that's it!
Brendan Oonk My 'id' is based on the white lines on the tentacels.... I don't know if there are other species with this caracteristic where you found this one.
Sarah Bowen The tentacles look a bit long and untidy for S. undatus - have you considered S. laceratus? Was it on its own or with others?
Wendy Northway yes - I considered both. From what the diver said, I think he was on wreckage/rock not in mud (looking at the anems book, undatus is buried in mud which lead me to think laceratus). I think he was on his own
Brendan Oonk Does S.laceratus have white lines along its tentacles? They are visible in this picture.
In the Netherlands we often see 'unburied' undatus
Claire Goodwin Both S. undatus and S. laceratus often found in mud but as Brendan says not always buried. I normally go on colour to distinguish between the two with S. undatus being grey and S. laceratus orangey red. Yours is a bit confusing as it is peach! Did you take any pics of the disk? Have you looked at http://www.habitas.org.uk/marinelife/species.asp?item=D12480?
Nikki Taylor Speaking of the Walney channel - here is an ID test for anyone that's interested!
Paula Lightfoot Hmmm maybe Sagartiogeton undatus? Longitudinal stripes on the tentacles. There's a record of this species on the NBN Gateway from a place called 'Danger Patch' which isn't so far from Walney. Don't like the sound of 'Danger Patch' as a dive site !!!
Nikki Taylor I concur :) Quite a good find from this neck of the woods, who knows what we will come up with on our dives! Thanks for your suggestion :)
Mandy Knott Basic information about it on Marlin website:http://www.marlin.ac.uk/speciesinformation.php?speciesID=4289#
Mandy Knott Nikki can you let me have co-ordinates please and was this a photo from a rock pool ?
David Fenwick Snr Hope someone here can help wit the ID of this as I'm a little uncertain as what it could be but initially I though Balanophyllia regia as it appears to have a distinct edge to it. The habitat type is in question but the species was found under a rock at low tide in what is likely a saline lagoon at Carnsew Pool, Hayle, Cornwall, 23.03.12. There were many Caryophyllia smithii and small Jewel Anemones with it. Cereus pedunculatus and Sagartiogeton undatus are the most frequent anemones found on the bottoms of stones, the stones are also above a muddy sediment. It's about 5-6mm in diameter. Thanks.
Erling Svensen I have big problems to identify sea anemones from Norway. Bernard said he would like a picture down on the disk, one from the side, and one after I have touched it. Here is one that I have done just like that. Any one that will try to name it? It is aprox. 2,5 cm high, and the grow in colonies. From Egersund harbour, 5 meter of sea water.
Estefania Rodriguez uhmmm, beautiful pictures...regrettably I know nothing without looking inside them...Sorry!
Erling Svensen Just like the surgeon people..... ;-)
Andy Horton The spotted column is confusing.
Andy Horton If it is not spotty I think it is Diadumene cincta.
Estefania Rodriguez In the column it has tubercles, some Sagartiogeton species have them...
Andy Horton Tubercles would rule out D cincta, but the poke response in the first picture is typical of D cincta.
Andy Horton Tentacles are like Sagartiogeton undatus.
Andy Horton Based on the Chris Wood sea anemone book I would go on Sagartiogeton laceratus. I do not know this sea anemone though.
Andy Horton https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Sagartiogeton+laceratus&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=G2JfT-2wOOaW0QXH95nkAw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CA4Q_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=606
Erling Svensen Yes, I feel that this is correct. Thanks
Darryl Mayer It would help with ID's if the pictures were larger. I run a notebook and the screen isn't big to begin with and these pictures all lumped together makes them even smaller to the extent I cannot make out any detail.
Erling Svensen If you download the pictures to your own computer you can look closer....
Bernard Picton I agree with most of the comments so far, ie. not sure what this could be!! Erling, did you photograph other individuals or are they all very similar.
Andy Horton 8 sea anemones of 6 species (some not so easy to spot and ID?)
David Wilson I can only see 5. Dahlia, beadlet, gem, possibly Sargartia elegans and maybe Caliactus parasitica. The other one is well hidden.
Andy Horton The purple one and the one next (right) to it is Sagartia troglodytes. The one hard to see is under the Prickly Cockle shell. I am not sure if it can be seen even if the picture is enlarged? I'll try it out.
Andy Horton Callaiactis parasitica is not there. The one to the left of the green Beadlet is not identified yet. I know what they are.
Andy Horton The one under the cockle shell is only possible to guess as it is not clear even when blown up. This is a scanned in transparency and it was scanned in a long time ago. I might be able to provide a better resolution picture one day. But the standard of photographs are so good now, I am not sure I will be able to match modern quality?
Andy Rapson The unidentified one next to the green beadlet, might it be Sagartiogeton undatus ?
Andy Horton Yep. The brown unidentified one can be seen clearly (but not clearly enough) in the cover photograph at the top of the page. And inserting a cover photograph was the whole point. I may change this one for a better photograph later.
David Fenwick Snr Does anyone know why WoRMS are listing both Anemonia sulcata (Pennant, 1777) and Anemonia viridis (Forskål, 1775) as accepted?
Allen Collins Good question. Both are listed as valid in the Hexacorallia database: http://hercules.kgs.ku.edu/Hexacoral/Anemone2/genus_search_valid.cfm?genus=Anemonia
Allen Collins But the synonymy for A. viridis seems to include A. sulcata in the same source. Daphne Fautin would answer your question.
David Fenwick Snr EOL and HABITAS would seem to confirm that both species are now independant of each other. I know it's reported on Marlin, Howson & Picton (1997), that the brown form might be a distinct species, but I cannot find any confirmation of this or any information confirming the separation and how they must now be separated from each other.
Marco Faasse The brown variety has been called Anemonia rustica, but I don't know if it has been formally described. Williams (1992) Pedal disc detachment (...) colour varieties. - Scientia Marina 56(4): 337-346 refers to German publications which I don't have. WoRMS considers A. rustica a nomen dubium.
David Fenwick Snr Have just found that there are records for both species on the UK NBN database so it appears both are accepted from the UK. One piece I have found states - ''There is some evidence that in the Mediterranean and in the Atlantic outside the British area, the brown form of Anemonia may be a distinct species (e.g. Bulnheim &
Sauer, 1984; Williams, 1992) but this is yet to be confirmed''. So this would potentially exclude records of A. sulcata from the UK. VERY PUZZLING.
David Fenwick Snr If what I gather is correct, an image I have taken at the National Marine Aquarium possibly shows A. sulcata centre; and A. viridis to the right of it. http://www.aphotomarine.com/images/sea_anemones/snakelock_anemone_anemonia_viridis_17-04-09.jpg
David Fenwick Snr All this has come about on looking at Victorian common names for UK species, Anemonia sulcata appears in a text and is reffered to as the Opelet.
Bernard Picton I kept both those names as someone told me they had evidence that there were two species, but I don't think anything definitive has been published. The Hexacorallia database and WoRMS (a derivative) list several names as valid which I think are synonyms. Actinothoe anguicoma and Sagartiogeton undatus are synonyms according to Manuel's Linn. Soc. Synopsis.
David Fenwick Snr Thanks Bernard, what troubles me is that I 'roughly' annually check WoRMS for changes in status. I'm sure that the last time I checked A. sulcatus was included as a synonym as I would have raised the issue before now, quite strange what has happened but of course wouldn't be the first time; until recently Spirorbis were largely unsorted and presented in a similar manner. On Sagartiogeton, Sagartiogeton viduatus was strangly mentioned in the book I was reading over and above any other species. Perhaps it was more common over 100 years ago or maybe it has been grossly overlooked in the UK; reported in the book as only opening at night. Ref: Edward Step; By the Deep Sea. A Popular Introduction to the Wild Life of the British Shores. 1896. Quite a good rockpooling read. Book freely available online as a PDF file.
Bernard Picton I think there was quite a bit of confusion over the Sagartiogeton species. S. viduatus is quite common in Zostera beds in Norway, it is quite small. I've never seen it in the UK or Ireland.
http://unreality.se/pictures/2752
David Fenwick Snr I think if it was around here on eelgrass I'd have seen it. Found some other pics from Norway last night.
Marco Faasse If there really are two or more European Anemonia species it seems possible that the holotype of A. sulcata belongs to one of them and the holotype of A. viridis to another. In that situation it would be unwise to synonymise the two before being sure how many, and which, Anemone (not anemone) species we have.
David Fenwick Snr So nomen limbus, a reservation? Agree unwise to synonymise. Hopefully the situation will get sorted.
David Fenwick Snr Daphne Fautin has very kindly contributed via Wim at WoRMS - Opinions have been divided on whether these are separate species; some opinions are that they are separate subspecies. The source of the WoRMS information provides full information about who has considered them separate and who has considered them synonyms. Until there is a single source that demonstrates they are a single species, and accounts for the differences in opinion, they will remain as separate lists in Hexacorallians of the World.
Bernard Picton That makes good sense. I always cite Palio nothus and Palio dubia. These were (wrongly) synonymised for a period so there are a lot of records which cannot now be attributed to the correct species.
Andy Horton Your opinion of the top ten fish most likely to be discovered intertidally (not estuaries). After 30 years of rockpooling in Sussex: Blenny, Rock Goby, Long-spined Bullhead, Corkwing Wrasse, Common Goby, Butterfish, then less frequent: 5-Bearded Rockling, Ballan Wrasse, Greater Pipefish, and finally the Sand Goby. But there are about 30 other fish that can be found. Have I left out any? We do not see many 2-spot Gobies. Others found this year included the Worm Pipefish. Lots are juveniles.
Andy Rapson Depending on the season my most common ten finds are: Shanny, rock goby, long spined bullhead, two spot goby, worm pipefish, five bearded rockling, corkwing wrasse, painted goby, Sand smelt, grey mullet.
Andy Rapson I used to find a few fifteen spined sticklebacks in my favourite rock pooling area but I haven't seen one of those in years.
Andy Horton I forgot to include Tompot which is seen more often than the Greater Pipefish. After Adur World Oceans Day I accidentally returned by Sagartiogeton undatus to the sea. I planned to close down all my tanks apart with one with sea anemones. Flat redecoration planned and there is not enough room. The estuarine fish list is different with Sand Smelt leading the way in 19 out of 20 years. Some species are now found and others have disappeared over the years.
David Wilson Small grey mullet can be very common in rock pools. Both Cornish sucker and Conemara clingfish can be common at some locations. Worm pipefish are the most common of the pipe fish in rock pools.
Andy Horton The west coast is different from the Sussex shore. And the North Sea is different as well. Species, topography, geology, climate, and the time of the low spring tides.
Becky Hitchin Kent: shanny, 5 bearded rockling (at least till a few years ago, they seem to be much rarer in the last year or so), greater pipefish (especially around now), very very small gobies. Again butterfish usually to be commoner than they are now
Anthony Hurd From a Yorkshire perspective (and from the short time I have been up here): butterfish, shanny, long-spined sea scorpion, 5-bearded rockling, eelpout, 2-spot goby, lumpsucker, 3-bearded rockling, Montagui's sea snail and worm pipefish.
Andy Rapson Hi Anthony, where abouts in Yorkshire do you go rock pooling? There are a few species on your list which I am keen to see. I'm in E Lancs so not that far away.
Anthony Hurd This list is from a variety of sites but I get to move around thanks to my job with Yorkshire Wildlife Trust. Mainly Flamborough (South and North Landings and Thornwick), Filey Brigg, Scarborough (Holbeck) and Robin Hood's Bay/Boggle Hole.
Andy Rapson Thanks Anthony I've made a note of all those locations.
Chris Barrett There are 2-spot gobies at Filey - they seem to be dependent on the depth of pool though, being as they're a pelagic species
Chris Barrett Rocky gobies are are (actually, i've not seen any) along the N.Yorkshire coast, but have seen plenty around Anglesey. In my experience, they seem to prefer substrate pools, which I tend not to use along the N.Yorkshire coast, as they're not permanent. In Anglesey's substrate pools though, there seems to be lots of G.paganellus and P.platessa
Andy Horton Do you get small Corkwing Wrasse inshore on the Yorkshire coast? Frequent to common off Sussex.
Chris Barrett If we do, certainly not in high abundances. I think I've seen three in the past 3 years
Andy Rapson During winter on my favourite Cornish patch there seems to be either a long spined scorpion fish or corkwing wrasse under every stone and clump of seaweed and little else.
Anthony Hurd With regards to corkwing wrasse I have just seen the one since I have been up here, at Dane's Dyke (Flamborough) and on a very low tide. 2-spot gobies we see occasionly but as Chris says, usually low on the shore in pools with some depth - I have seen them Scarborough, Flamborough and Robin Hood's Bay. A truelly stunning fish up close. Chris do you know where rock goby have been recorded up here?
Andy Horton STANDARD ACFOR SYSTEM
SUPERABUNDANT = 10,000 +
ABUNDANT 1000- 10,000
COMMON 100-1000
FREQUENT 10 - 50
OCCASIONAL 2-10
RARE = ONLY 1
NEW ACFOR SYSTEM OF ABUNDANCE OVER A SPECIFIED AREA (OF SHORE)
SUPERABUNDANT = 10,000 +
ABUNDANT 1000- 10,000
VERY COMMON = 500-1000
COMMON 100-500
VERY FREQUENT = 50-100
FREQUENT 10 - 50
OCCASIONAL 2-10
RARE = ONLY 1
Very Rare 1-5 records in total since 2000
Rare less than one every year
Very Scarce 2 or 3 per year
Scarce 1-10 per year
Andy Horton On this scale Worm Pipefish are vey scarce on mid-Sussex shores. Previously rare.
Andy Rapson The trouble with using these records is that relatively few people recognise what they find and even fewer bother to report their finds. Using the records of previous finds the East coast appears relatively barren but it seems that this isn't really the case in reality.
Penny Martin Orkney,........ 2 spot gobies, sand gobies, eelpout, butterfish, lumpsucker, corkwing wrasse, cuckoo wrasse, goldsinny, ballan wrasse, long spined sea scorpion, greater pipefish, snake pipefish , 15 spined stickleback.... do you include flatfish and eels ??
Andy Horton Penny Martin: I was thinking intertidally specifically. Another thread for the fish in estuaries/lochs or just below Chart Datum.
